Weird OT stuff

[OTBSkinloss]

Many years ago I knew a dood that wrote a paper on the cultural advances of tribal folks that hads a better food supply. his thesus was that the people with a buncha food (meaning abundant food, that was realitivly easy to catch) had more time to spend on artisic, crap. Break it down to what I just saw on Animal Planet, and it comes down to BTU's per food source. Divide that by what you have to expend to catch, kill, and eat it, and it becomes a pretty cool equation.

Lets suppose the number of calories needeed to sustain your ass was C. The number of calories needed to get that number of calories was N.
So it comes down to N-C=L, to keep on, keepin on. When L=livin'.
Ok, let's take this to it's logical conclusion. I ask the question.
Are folks who have more time on thier hands(que Styx), able to become a more philosophic buncha folks?
Are the better fed populations, more apt to develop a violent religion than the less fed? Are they more prone to conquest? or more ready to live along side others? Also, would the better fed group be more or less violent twords its counterpart, when no violence was initated? Or would the lesser fed group attack first.
Now think in terms of penis size. I know this sounds crazy, but it has a point.
Would a group of culturly unsophisticated folks care?

Many others come up, but for the sake of brevity, lets just discuss the one at hand.
But I digress.

:D

[myron]

I'm making a huge pot of chili, so that I may sustain myself through the week. Three seperate types of animals gave their lives so that I may have this chili. Will I be smarter afterwards, I doubt it,but lets see what happens.

A moment of silence for those creatures that gave their all so that I may eat.

[OTBSkinloss]

nother question.

Is an expression of art and religion, a sign of advancement?

Uno mas.

Does religion show a lack of primitivity?

Feel free to jump in at any time.

I know Jeff might not aprove, but we can do it anyway.

:D

[jerman]

Does religion show a lack of primitivity?


I think religion is the most primitive human creation. Before science, there was religion to explain the unexplained.

[phlatlander]

Makes sense. Except you'd conclude that animals at the zoos would be smarter than their uncaptive counterparts since they don't have to waste time looking for plants & prey, but I think free time is a creativity killer. I watched a tiger walk the same circular path pattern over and over for 1/2 hour. I got stupider just watching him. Same thing with the elephants as they stand there and rock back and forth like they are in a rubber room.
Only sure way ensure progress is through reward. Whether it be a fish tossed to a dolphin for doing a flip or bedding with Russian women for being a cool guy. So all of this relates to capitalism & why it is the best system there is, though not perfect: You start taking all the food away from the hunters and spreading it out amongst the tribe, you are bound to make the hunter angry so he'll stop hunting. Give him a new shiny crossbow (tax cut) and he'll keep hunting and his bounty will trickle down to those that don't hunt. Then you will continue to sustain the firewood gatherers and the cookers and the moccasin makers etc...

[myron]

I know it's a repeat, but I can't help but keep thinking. Once again the animals were conscious of a vague uneasiness. Never to have any dealings with human beings, never to engage in trade, never to make use of money. Or some such.......

[rockyrider]

Makes sense. Except you'd conclude that animals at the zoos would be smarter than their uncaptive counterparts since they don't have to waste time looking for plants & prey, but I think free time is a creativity killer. I watched a tiger walk the same circular path pattern over and over for 1/2 hour. I got stupider just watching him. Same thing with the elephants as they stand there and rock back and forth like they are in a rubber room.I watched the polar bear in the Calgary Zoo do that as well, in exactly the same paw print impressions in the ice. A bit stir crazy, which likely would not be a good thing if they had a chance to escape.

Mind you, the elephant in the Calgary Zoo (http://www.calgaryzoo.org/HelpingTheZoo/Donations/kamala_paintings.htm) is a painter. The elephant was doing some stuff that could likely end up in the National Art Gallery. Very abstract.

Just like people, animals respond to stress in different ways, the type A meat eaters that are used to hunting for food are less suited to a tame environment, but the herd animals and opportunistic browsers and feeders cope better with the mundane sameness of captivity, cubicles and work environments.

[rockyrider]

and David Byrne said it best...

I'm mad...And that's a fact
I found out...Animals don't help
Animal think...They're pretty smart
Sh*t on the ground...See in the dark.

They wander around like a crazy dog
Make a mistake in the parking lot
Always bumping into things
Always let you down down down down.

They're never there when you need them
They never come when you call them
They're never there when you need them
The never come when you call them down down down down.

I know the animals...Are laughing at us
They don't even know...What a joke is
I won't follow...Animal's advice
I don't care...If they're laughing at us.

They're never there when you need them
They never come when you call them
They're never there when you need them
The never come when you call them down down down down.

They say they don't need money
They're living on nuts and berries
They say animals don't worry
You know animals are hairy?
They think they know what's best
They're making a fool of us
They ought to be more careful
They're setting a bad example
They have untroubled lives
They think everything's nice
They like to laugh at people
They're setting a bad example
(Go ahead) Laugh at me.

[OTBSkinloss]

I think religion is the most primitive human creation. Before science, there was religion to explain the unexplained.

Ok, but my original Q, still stands.
If ya got more time to think about god, instead of spending it trying to eat, are you more or less civilized?

Also, what constitutes "civilized".

Can we adress this at least? I know we're just a buncha bike types, but I would hope that if Jeff and his ilk can censor us, it should be for something good. :rolleyes:

[phlatlander]

Mind you, the elephant in the Calgary Zoo (http://www.calgaryzoo.org/HelpingTheZoo/Donations/kamala_paintings.htm) is a painter. The elephant was doing some stuff that could likely end up in the National Art Gallery. Very abstract.

Yes, but that elephant and others like it have to be taught this & they get rewarded for it. By empowering it with a skill that not only keeps its mind occupied but is also rewarded for doing that skill, you improve the quality of life. Don't think for a moment the other elephants at that zoo aren't forming a union & demanding the same benefits as Kamala gets.

As an observer, one may look at dolphins in captivity as being very intelligent, but when you think of it they are actually rather stupid (http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1984422,00.html). They are just doing things that they'd normally do in the wild, only we isolate certain behaviors and reward them for it. Their observed playfulness in the wild just goes to show you they have too much free time on their hands.

So do we treat the spoiled rich girl any different than the perpetual welfare recipient? Both have a developed dependency that if cut off, might not survive. Our goal is to work towards empowerment for all so none end up rocking back and forth in their cages.

[OTBSkinloss]

Damn!
Phlat got it!

[myron]

Damn!
Phlat got it!

He always get's it. Now I'm going back to thinking about ground sausage while this chili simmers.:D

[OTBSkinloss]

Now apply that to the dirt rag forums.
it gets interesting.

[davkatreb]

...but I was riding around town today on the Monocog. It was about 25F, windy and spitting snow.

So some hick yells, "Your ass is gonna get cold on that bike!"

I yells back, "Yours is gonna get fat on that couch!"

[AM Radio]

Still the fact remains that we have the digestive system of herbivores. Sorry to shake. It's still OK to drink beer, just don't kill anybody doing it.

[phlatlander]

Still the fact remains that we have the digestive system of herbivores. Sorry to shake. It's still OK to drink beer, just don't kill anybody doing it.

The footed fish were forsaken by the finned.

[Ripp]

Does expression of art or religion mean a people are more advanced?

I see them both related to free time (L if you want) in different ways. Art will not thrive (if exist at all) without time not spent earning the basic requirements of existence. Religion probably wiill, in some form. Humans want something to either blame for the misfortunes they experience, or some entity to ask for more than what they have, this seems to exist in all cultures no matter how base their existence. But in the more developed societies we begin to see humans turning their back on religion. I suspect because people have enough free time to actually examine the concept of religions and form their own opininons.

Neither art or religion makes a culture civilized in my opinion. How that society treats not only its own members but members of other societies is the yard stick. This invloves among other things, tolerance of diffenrent views and the ability to disagree amicably. That is what signals advancement of a culture to me. I think it does require some "L" as OTD defined it, 'cause if you are worried about what you will eat tonight then you will not, probably, be capable of having any compassion or understanding for members a rival society competeing for the same food supply.

No one on these forums, or really any person with the means and time to peruse an online forum has these types of issues in their life, I'd think we could make the job of moderating these forums an invisible task.

[AM Radio]

The footed fish were forsaken by the finned.

The Nazi's had pieces of flare, they made the jews wear them.

[Spalls]

OTB, earlier you asked "Also, what constitutes "civilized". Should the anonymity of a forum provide an opportunity to get something that I don't think exists anywhere remotely civilized (pick your definition), namely, the ability to do and say what you want, when you want to, and how you want to with no likelihood of repercussions from some form of authority?

[Ripp]

Very good point Spalls!

Accountablity for one actions and words is another part of being civized, one of the first really.

[dlee]

Damn!
Spalls got it!

[poison idea]

the zoo animals suffer from a variety of animal psychosis. the lack of stimulation leads to catatonia

hunter gatherer societies have more free time than any other kind of society. once fed, they can devote all free time to art, play, discovery. it was the advent of agriculture that anchored us into routine.