SS/Rohloff bike buildup

[LeeMcGough]

Both myself and my dad are looking to build up bikes that can be used as singlespeeds and Rohloff-equipped bikes. My dad would rather have a 29'er, but isn't dead-set against a 26, but doesn't want to break the bank. He would rather have something he can improve upon once he is already rolling. I would rather have a squishy Rohloff/SS, and am aware of the Kona A, but have been advised by a couple of people that I will end up with too much unsprung weight, making a bike that has a mind of its own once it has the Rohloff hub. Does anyone know what the Zion EBB is like? Is it a piece of crap? Thoughts? Suggestions?

[rockyrider]

oh poo... To put the hub weight difference in perspective, an LX/XT rear hub is about 450-500gms. A Rohloff is roughly 1800gms with the external shifter box and grip shift, so you're looking at about 1200-1300gms of weight difference close to the rear axle. If you mate the Rohloff with a light rim it will be right around 2300gms built up as a wheel.

A Kenda 2.0 Blue Groove tire is roughly 450gms, and a Kenda 2.7 Blue Groove tire is 1500gms. So you can get almost the same magnitude of difference in rear wheel weight with extreme tire size variations, but shock damping can take care of all sorts of weight difference in the rear wheel. You never hear anyone talk about the rear suspension on bikes being horribly affected by tire weight.

You might find that you run maybe one click more rebound damping with the Rohloff over a dedicated SS rear hub. As long as the shock has some sort of Pro Pedal damping, the concentric BB pivot works quite well.

I've run both of the older and newer Kona A's as Rohloff and SS, and I can compare them to the Rocky ETSX-70 on the same trails, and I'd have to say that the only thing I really notice about the Rohloff equipped suspension bike is that the tail is a bit heavier when pulling it up over obstacles, but mostly there's no chain slap, and they work better in mud and snow. And the Rohloff is noisier than everything but a King.

There's quite a few guys on the MTBR forum that have full suspension Rohloff equipped bikes (in the Everything Drivetrain thread).

If you're thinking about a hardtail, you could go the EBB route, or the 26" Kona Unit or Unit 29er with the Misfit Dropout sliders.

[LeeMcGough]

I think you might be right RockyRider with regard to the weight factor on a FS. I think the LBS owner was dismissing the idea because he sells Intense bikes, and they are Virtual Pivot, and would (I think) require a chain tensioner in order to run a Rohloff, and he knows I don't want to do that. I really like the looks of the 5.5, but I really want to run a Rohloff, and I really don't want any pulleys down there, or a multiple chanring setup, or two shifters, or, well, you see where I am going with this. I want the simplicity and durability, and reliability of an internal hub, along with the creature comforts of a full squish. I would prefer a 5" or so travel bike though, as I have gotten quite accustomed to running 35-40%sag on my Norcol.
Does anyone know if the Zion is any good? It is pretty cheap, and, being of Scottish origin, I am looking for a decent CHEAP steel hardtail that I can put my dad on that is SS/Rohloff compatible.

[rockyrider]

The Cove G-Spot would be a burly FS frame with 6" of travel and a concentric BB pivot, but you'd need a Rohloff Speedbone to mount the hub and you'd have to hope for a magic chain length to get the tension just right with cog/ring selection, as there's no chainstay length adjustment. It might be a bit of a tank for conventional SS riding as it's likely a 7 or 8 pound frame/shock.

The Kona Cowan DS or the A frames are really the best bet to have a boinger with no tensioners as a Rohloff or an SS. The Kona A is a really sweet SS bike, once I put my first Kona A together as an SS, I was sold on the value of a FS SS to allow you to pedal and maintain your momentum over really rough terrain.

If you cable the Rohloff shifter cables right, you can do a SS/Rohloff drivetrain swap in about 20 minutes. (don't run one of the shift cables through the middle of the front triangle, keep everything as a run of cable that follows the brake hose/cable).

The Zion is a pretty good value for dollar, it's a no-name CrMo butted tubeset, not the Dedacciai steel tubes that Kona uses on their Unit, or the Niner's S.I.R.9 Reynolds 853 tubing. It's largely a factor of tubeset that makes the difference between the $250 Zion frame, the $450 Kona Unit frame, or $800 Niner SIR9 frame.

[LeeMcGough]

A guy in my town rode a G-spot with a Rohloff, and when I ran into him recently, I was talking about getting another bike (w/Rohloff), and said there was no way I was putting one on my Norco. "Why not", he says. I tell him to pick up my bike. "That's not bad", he says, "My G-Spot was heavier than that". The Norco weighed 42lbs stock, and I maybe dropped 2lbs off that with a rear wheel, brakes, and tires swap. I am not at all interested in a +40lb full squish. If all of my full squish options are in that weight territory, then I will go hardtail, and get a good massage therapist, who hopefully knows a good chiropractor. Roughly how much did your Kona A weigh, with what components? 4" travel, yes?

[rockyrider]

The 2004 Kona A with the Rohloff is 29 pounds, the 2006 Kona A with the Rohloff was 31.5 pounds. That's with 2.35" Kenda Kinetics tires on both bikes.

The 2004 Kona A is a 3.5" rear travel frame and has an 80mm air sprung fork. The 2006 Kona A has 4" of travel and a 100mm Fox Vanilla fork so that's where the extra weight came from.

My Rocky ETSX-70 weighs 28.25 pounds by comparison.

[LeeMcGough]

Do you have a ballpark figure on the cost of a new frame W/shock? Sub 30lbs sounds very, very nice, provided the bike doesn't feel too whippy. How long of a fork can I run up front on the Kona A before it starts to feel all goofy, or I run the risk of shearing the headtube?

[brunop]

being of Scottish origin, I am looking for a decent CHEAP steel hardtail that I can put my dad on that is SS/Rohloff compatible.

surly karate monkey might be what you're lookin' for. i have one and the rohloff is the jam. works great and ya have a lot of options with a karate monkey vis a vis brakes, or runnin' a derailleur, or going SS or fixed if ya get tired of the rohloff (which you won't!--believe me!!).:) :D :) :D :)

[rockyrider]

Do you have a ballpark figure on the cost of a new frame W/shock? Sub 30lbs sounds very, very nice, provided the bike doesn't feel too whippy. How long of a fork can I run up front on the Kona A before it starts to feel all goofy, or I run the risk of shearing the headtube?Bikeman (http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/CELLFRMMTNFSKON/KON-A05) lists the new Kona A at $799 US including a rear shock. I tried to order it through a Canadian Kona dealer but Kona Canada had none, all of them were south of the border and they didn't seem interested in getting any brought up here, so I bought it from Bikeman.

The Cowan DS frame is $899 US, I'm not sure if you can get those through a Canadian dealer or not. The frame is beefy with the Kona Clump tubing so it could handle a 130mm travel fork no problem. They already have a fairly slack head angle so a 125-130mm fork may make them a bit dozy on climbs.