Best XC disc brakes?

[BrevCampagnolo]

If you were building a new ultra-light XC ride and someone else was footing the bill, what brakes would you put on it?

[cMc]

Whatever the top o' the range Avid Juicys might be.

[tryandgetme]

custom designed from someone in the space program

[ripnshread]

Formula Oro Puro
Magura Marta
Shimano XTR

...In that order

[rockyrider]

Marta SL's (now available in pimpin' anodized colours like red and gold).

The new Hope Mono Mini Pros might actually be lighter than the Marta SL's, have to see what the production weights are.

I've got Marta's and Marta SL's on two bikes and like them a lot for XC use, I've never had them fade, I did have one need bleeding lately after manually pushing one piston back into the caliper but other than that they have been great.

I have Hope Mono Minis on one bike and they are good performers too, although the lever shape isn't quite as comfy. All the Avid Juicy's I've tried make woodling noises when braking hard.

[Spatafore]

If you were building a new ultra-light XC ride and someone else was footing the bill, what brakes would you put on it?

Are you in Irag for military purposes? Are we footing the bill for this one?;) :D

[rockyrider]

Marta SL's through military procurement channels would likely cost like they were off the space shuttle.... :eek:

[real_ss_budgie]

Marta SL's (now available in pimpin' anodized colours like red and gold).


tacky......

[rockyrider]

tacky......au contraire, mon frere...

[sjsielen]

all these brakes mentioned are very nice though will require some maintenance every 1 to 4 months that will require bleed kits and and some time. if you want some very nice brakes that are virtually maintenance free, consider the avid bb7's which are mechanical and not hydraulic. talk to anyone using them and they are extremely satisfied. a strong argument about mechanical vs hydros is that the cables can get dirty and affect power. my brother runs these brakes and ran the cable housing the entire distance from lever to caliper and has never had an issue with the cable getting dirty - and trust me, we've ridden through some of the muddiest, wettest stuff imaginable. they are available with 160mm, 180mm, or 203mm rotors, so the stopping power is there, have been known as some of the easiest brakes to setup and can be used with any v-brake levers, though i do recommend the avid speed dial levers. i think blueskycycling.com has the best deal on the 07's currently, though i know price is not really an issue for you. if you do go with these, run the avid full metal jacket cable housing and you will be set!

dont take my word for it though - do a search on here for bb7 and look at the review on mtbr.com

[real_ss_budgie]

au contraire, mon frere...
wee wee petite frommage..the caliper looks trick but the resi looks tacky..saw it on the 07 epic last week..a cacophony of colour in the cockpit..christ!..carlo!!

[Spalls]

"All the Avid Juicy's I've tried make woodling noises when braking hard."

Rocky, what is woodling? I run Avids; is woodling something to fret over? Will Woodle-Lube take care of it?

[Trailer Rails]

all these brakes mentioned are very nice though will require some maintenance every 1 to 4 months that will require bleed kits and and some time.


Have you ever run Hydro brakes? Do you know what you are talking about? If you have to service your hydros once a month you are doing something very wrong. :confused:

I buy a new bike every year now, but in the past I have gone 2,3 even 4 YEARS without having to bleed my hydro brakes. Hydros are very maintenance free. Hydros are less maintinence than a mech brake, hydros self adjust for brake pad wear, there are no cables to gum up, hydro has more braking power, hydro deals with heat better.

Edit: I reread your post and it looks like you don't even run disc brakes. All of your information is second hand.

[rockyrider]

That nutty roundagon rotor makes them go woodle woodle woodle woodle when stopping hard. Because I have 185/160 rotors on the Slayer, the front and back woodle at different pitches.

[rockyrider]

wee wee petite frommage..the caliper looks trick but the resi looks tacky..saw it on the 07 epic last week..a cacophony of colour in the cockpit..christ!..carlo!!The red ones would look juuuuuuuust right on one of these.... me thinks.... :D

I've only had to bleed one of my Martas once in 3.5 years of use, and the Hope brakes only when I changed the hoses to Goodridge from the stock hoses. I do have to twiddle the red knob on my BB7's all the time to minimize rotor deflection and and keep the braking effort consistent. The more that rotor has to bend, the noisier it seems to be when wet.

Most of the brake manufacturers are headed the post mount caliper route now, so the clear advantage of the Avids in setting up the caliper without spacers is dwindling quickly. The Formula Oro's, the Hayes, and the new Martas, are all available in post mount with adapters to IS. The adapters do add weight, the straight IS mount calipers are about an ounce lighter.

[Spatafore]

I buy a new bike every year now, but in the past I have gone 2,3 even 4 YEARS without having to bleed my hydro brakes. Hydros are very maintenance free. Hydros are less maintinence than a mech brake, hydros self adjust for brake pad wear, there are no cables to gum up, hydro has more braking power, hydro deals with heat better.


I agree. I have had a set of Shimano Deore hydros for about 3-4 years and have not had to do squat. They are absolutely perfect. They are far from being the best also. (In terms of reviews.)

[Trailer Rails]

I agree. I have had a set of Shimano Deore hydros for about 3-4 years and have not had to do squat. They are absolutely perfect. They are far from being the best also. (In terms of reviews.)

I love the Deore brakes, cheep, simple, power. Not quite as much bling as the Fomulas or the XTRs though.

[BrevCampagnolo]

I don’t mind maintenance, I don’t know anyone at NASA, I’ll trade (moderate) braking noise for better stopping, and I’m in Iraq for the babes.

...dont take my word for it though - do a search on here for bb7 and look at the review on mtbr.com
Wilco (but not because I don't trust you). ;)

[sjsielen]

Have you ever run Hydro brakes? Do you know what you are talking about? If you have to service your hydros once a month you are doing something very wrong. :confused:

I buy a new bike every year now, but in the past I have gone 2,3 even 4 YEARS without having to bleed my hydro brakes. Hydros are very maintenance free. Hydros are less maintinence than a mech brake, hydros self adjust for brake pad wear, there are no cables to gum up, hydro has more braking power, hydro deals with heat better.

Edit: I reread your post and it looks like you don't even run disc brakes. All of your information is second hand.

Trailer Rails- good observation, I guess I should have stated my personal experience in my previous post. I have only run mechanical discs and never hydros. A riding pal of mine had some trouble with his hydros and was bringing his bike back to the shop every couple months for brake work, so I guess this gave me the impression that they required a lot of maintenance. Eventually I did purchase some Hayes El Caminos, though ended up selling them without ever installing them, as several people (including two that work at one of my LBS's) told me I was going to have to bleed them pretty frequently. Maybe this was just this specific brakeset. Either way, I am glad to hear that they can go years without maintenance (if properly cared for, I am sure) which may persuade me to go with hydros after all. I was really considering the BB7's for a while now, since I sold the El Cams, though may have to consider some other options.

I will not be so quick to give advice about something that I only have minimal experience with in the future. Though I do wonder why so many people including the guys at the shop make it seem like hydros require so much work. I am learning a lot here on the DR forums, so thank you for correcting my error.

[Trailer Rails]

The BB7s are not bad brakes at all, it just this guy wanted the best disc brakes. They are far from that. They are much better than rim brakes and they are the best cable brakes out there. :D

[bitchslapmadman]

my XTR duallies fit the bill. Light, powerfull and they are XTR. Never a problem and never a ghost shift. Loads of bar space. I use the XT rotors.

[Hand/of/Midas]

LISTEN UP!!! its not the rotor that makes the juicy brakes make noises(mostly when wet)! ever notice that avid brakes have those spacers that allow you to adjsut your brake caliper PERFECTLY in line with the rotor? yea, i know it sounds funny, but juicy brakes make that noise because they adjust so perfect. no one elses adjust perfect. on that note get JUICY ULTIMITEs, the only thing lighter are the marta's, but if youve spent quite a bit of time on both(and hayes, and shimano) AND bleed/worked on most of them, youll go with avid brakes also.

[rockyrider]

My experience is different, just swapping the Avid Juicy Roundagon rotors to a different rotor shape like the Galfer or a Aztec can cure the woodle woodle woodle problem.

[jerman]

My experience is different, just swapping the Avid Juicy Roundagon rotors to a different rotor shape like the Galfer or a Aztec can cure the woodle woodle woodle problem.

You ever have that woodle noise on just one wheel?
My C'dale Rush has Juicy 7's and I get a funny noise coming from the rear wheel when I brake at higher speeds.

[Trailer Rails]

You ever have that woodle noise on just one wheel?
My C'dale Rush has Juicy 7's and I get a funny noise coming from the rear wheel when I brake at higher speeds.

I have Juicy Ultimates on my Rush Carbon and the rear makes the same noise. I never bothered to look at them but I think it because the mount may be too tall.

I'll look at them tomorrow and let you know what I see.

[plume_mtb]

Have you ever run Hydro brakes? Do you know what you are talking about? If you have to service your hydros once a month you are doing something very wrong. :confused:

I buy a new bike every year now, but in the past I have gone 2,3 even 4 YEARS without having to bleed my hydro brakes. Hydros are very maintenance free. Hydros are less maintinence than a mech brake, hydros self adjust for brake pad wear, there are no cables to gum up, hydro has more braking power, hydro deals with heat better.

Edit: I reread your post and it looks like you don't even run disc brakes. All of your information is second hand.



You've obviously never had the fortune of owning a set of Hopes or Hayes I take it?

:D

Hydros deal with heat better? What does that even mean? Mechanicals will never over heat while hydraulics can fade after long downhills! Pay the man his money...

[tryandgetme]

woodle is now an official technical description. or should be.

[rockyrider]

I've heard it described as a gobble, but the waveform envelope is not a fast enough rise for the G in gobble, it's more of a sawtooth or triangle amplitude and frequency envelope, so definitely a woodle or possibly a wooble, but there is a little rising high frequency peak in it when braking really hard that sounds more like the D in woodle.

[trail_head26@ya]

Brakes just slow you down.
Im not sure if im the first to say it but you all know thats the cliche aggro line to place in this post.

[Trailer Rails]

You've obviously never had the fortune of owning a set of Hopes or Hayes I take it?

:D

Hydros deal with heat better? What does that even mean? Mechanicals will never over heat while hydraulics can fade after long downhills! Pay the man his money...

Mechanicals overheat. The heat is transfered into the plastic coated and lined housing making the brakes mushy. Different hydros will respond to heat differently. Hopes are about the worst brakes made. I used hayes on a DH bike for many years and they worked pretty well, I never boiled any fluid after repeted 30-45min DH runs.

[tryandgetme]

Brakes just slow you down.
Im not sure if im the first to say it but you all know thats the cliche aggro line to place in this post.

damn, I forgot about that! one of my favorites...

[tryandgetme]

heat basically doesn't exist for XC use. You'll be fine with whatever you buy.

[BrevCampagnolo]

Brakes just slow you down.
Im not sure if im the first to say it but you all know thats the cliche aggro line to place in this post.
A man who owned one of his cars once wrote a letter to Ettore Bugatti complaining that the brakes faded. Bugatti wrote him back, saying "Brakes??? I build my cars to go, not to stop!!"

Mechanicals overheat. The heat is transfered into the plastic coated and lined housing making the brakes mushy. Different hydros will respond to heat differently. Hopes are about the worst brakes made. I used hayes on a DH bike for many years and they worked pretty well, I never boiled any fluid after repeted 30-45min DH runs.
I'm not a downhiller but mechanicals aren't even in the running.

[Trailer Rails]

I'm not a downhiller but mechanicals aren't even in the running.

I realized after I posted that that it was not even a concern for a XC guy and we were getting off topic. :D

[BrevCampagnolo]

My experience is different, just swapping the Avid Juicy Roundagon rotors to a different rotor shape like the Galfer or a Aztec can cure the woodle woodle woodle problem.
Good point. All disk brakes squeal. Some just do it at a frequency too high for humans to hear. With noisy brakes, the trick is to figure a way to tune them to squeal at a higher pitch. They sell pad backing grease for cars that does that very thing.

[Trailer Rails]

They sell pad backing grease for cars that does that very thing.

Wow, that is a good idea, I have never used grease on the car pad but I have used something closer to a RTV compund. I might have to bring some up to the shop and see how that works.

[BrevCampagnolo]

Okay, at this point the field has narrowed to two: the Avid Juicy Ultimate and the Magura Marta SL. The Avids are heavier (by < 2 ozs) but offer better adjustability. Plus, I’m finding the SLs have a reputation for warping rotors. I have a car with the same reputation but proper bedding in prevents the problem ever surfacing. However, the same apparently is not true with the Maguras.

I’m thinking superior adjustability and rotor durability is worth (a bit less than) two ounces. Anyone have any experience with either of these?

[tryandgetme]

I can sometimes overfill my hydration pack by 2oz and never notice on the trail...

[rockyrider]

I've got two bikes with the Marta SL's (soon to have a 3rd with pimpin' red ano), never yet had a warped rotor problem (touch wood). They are a light rotor so I'd be more inclined to think they're subject to getting bent or dinged than heat warping.

You can adjust lever throwand engagement point on the Marta's, it just takes a 2mm hex wrench instead of the little red Avid dial. I've never tweaked it once it was set.

[BrevCampagnolo]

I can sometimes overfill my hydration pack by 2oz and never notice on the trail...
That's why I don't carry water ...and ride naked. :D

[BrevCampagnolo]

Okay, this is freaky. At MTBR.com, both these brakes have an average rating of 4.67. The Avid has 6 reviews and the Magura has 3. One of the Avid "reviewers" is a "tested or demoed only" poser, though (who, naturally scored it 5 chilis), which skews the statistics.

[Rock Star]

The red marta sl's are HOT. I'd love to have those on my bike for the pimpin' looks and the extreme light weight.

I have Avid BB5 mechanicals on my rockhopper and they seem to be very nice. They feature 'Clean Sweep' rotors, I dont know if that makes any difference or not.
I havent tried other disc brakes for comparison. They beat the hell out V brakes as far as I can tell though.

I'd imagine the the Avid Juicy Carbons would be awesome.

So not really knowing a whole lot about it, I'd choose between the marta sl's (in anodized red of course) and the avid juicy carbons. I'm clearly no expert, but I dont think you can go to far wrong with either one.