Need advice on my first mountain bike

[cyber_hawke]

That might have sounded a little wierd since I am 60 years old, 250 lbs and just fell in love with mountain biking.

I will be riding in the Mt Hood area and need a bike that will get an old fat fart up the hill as well as bring him back down. I rented a Giant Reign from a bike shop and it was a pretty good bike, but at $2500 it seemed a little steep for a first bike... I thot I wanted full suspension (with the ability to dampen it on the way up) and good disc brakes (lots of inertia to overcome). I have been looking in magazines and at several bike shops.

Does anyone have any suggestions that dont cost over $2000 (or do I need to pay that much for a first bike). Also is there any line that I need to stay away from.

Thanks,
Cyber

[plume_mtb]

You can definitly get on a great full squish bike for less than 2K. My advice is to look at Jamis. They make the best value oriented bikes ever - and that doesn't mean they're cheap. They spec their bikes better than any other bike producer out there - that means they're stocking their bikes with brand name parts, not OEM, or "generic" parts.

If you think you can stand to get on a hardtail you'll find that you can get a lot more bike for the money, in which case you could get on a quality trail worthy bike for right around 800, to 1000 bucks. Plan on spending at least 1500 for a full suspension - spending any less will get you on something that won't last... again do yourself a favor and check into Jamis, heck even C'dale has a f/s bike for 1700 now, as I'm sure the other big companies do as well.

good luck, the only other piece of advice I'll offer is to buy locally, and not online. If you can find a quality shop they'll be there, locally to help you - this is especially important if you're just starting out.

:D

ps, kudos on gettin back on the bike, isn't it a blast?!

[rockyrider]

And you might want to look at a Giant Trance rather than the Reign, the suspension mechanism is the same but the 4" travel suspension bikes are a few pounds lighter than the 6" travel Reign. The uphills around Hood River and south of there are long and demanding. A Trance 2 lists at $1700 and has pretty good spec parts and will climb as well as the Reign. You can always upgrade components to match the Trance 1 or 0 later, the frames are all the same except for paint colour.

[myron]

I feel that for the most part when you compare a certain price point,most major brands are the same. Shop the shop,not the brand. Go with who makes you feel comfortable and has a genuine concern for what is best for you. Gut feeling is worth a lot here. My prefered shop is in a cellar up north.

NO Ebay
NO big box retailer's or sporting goods stores

Btw....
Our very own Rockyrider is a few years older than you and still going strong. It's never too late to start.

[cyber_hawke]

Thanks for all the words of support about picking up the sport.

Unfortunately, I still live in the Florida Panhandle (for about 2 more months), then it will be to Washington DC for 3 years and finally to Washington State to retire. So picking out a good bike shop and sticking with them means either going to Washington and buying from a shop in Hood River or picking out a bike here and then developing a relationship with shops along the way. There is a pretty good bike shop close to where I work that sells Jamis. The owner's recommendation is an XCR Expert, it is a little pricey and hard to explain to the family finance minister (ha ha), so I am looking for a alternate model that will still be good but affordable. They also sell KHS and while he did not have any in stock, he said the KHS XC604 (I think that was the model) might be an alternative. I have not seen any KHS bikes down here, is it worth considering?:o

[Jay13]

I've never ridden a KHS, but the one you mentioned has been unfavorably reviewed on MTBR. (Yuck, that other forum, I know...)

By the way, if you are in the panhandle, you are close to decent riding in Tallahassee (Tom Brown Park, Red Bug are both fun) and the Ocala area is only 2 hours away (Santos, Razorback, many more awesome trails)

You probably know this already, but if you've never ridden these trails you're missing out on great riding.

[rockyrider]

btw....
Our very own Rockyrider is a few years older than you and still going strong. It's never too late to start.ouch, hey man, I'm only 51. :eek: :rolleyes:

[noob-to-29]

just stay away from cannondales caffeine frames, had my bike mechanic tell me they're too thin for heavy riders

[jerman]

You might want to check out Specialized. You get a lot of bang for you buck w/ them. My brother in law just got a Stumpjumper fsr comp and he really likes it. Has a really nice parts spec and he paid $2000.

[cyber_hawke]

I was kinda thinking of buying an entry level bike with a good frame and some "OK" components and then upgrading as I got better and could actually make use of them.

Since I don't have a decent MB, I havent been doing any trail riding unless I am on leave or vacation. I do know that Eglin AFB has over 800 miles of trail and I am trying to get out on those. But my Cannondale road bike really sucks in sand....

Any idea on a good cross country/all mountain frame that a line sells that could be made into a great bike later?

[jerman]

Again, I think you should check out Specialized. They have good frames at all price points.

[cMc]

You might want to check out Specialized. You get a lot of bang for you buck w/ them. My brother in law just got a Stumpjumper fsr comp and he really likes it. Has a really nice parts spec and he paid $2000.

Yup, I'd agree with this. The first really good MTB I had was a Stumpjumper. I would suggest one of the Stumpjumper full-suspension bikes, with a cross-country focus (like 3" or 4" max travel). Excess travel is going to come along with some negative handling and ride characteristics as well as likely extra bike weight, for various reasons.

Also, disc brakes rule, and cable-actuated discs are idiot (and beginner) proof.

Enjoy the ride!

[neusaab]

Many good values available from multiple makers including the above mentioned Giant, Jamis, KHS and Specialized. Consider any big company/Asian-made bike including Gary Fisher, Fuji, Trek, Mongoose, Schwinn, Iron Horse. All good quality at your $2000 price point.

I'd recommend buying the most bike your wife will let you get away with up front. You'll be happier from the get-go, and can still upgrade later.

And welcome.

[gti2k2000]

You want to get a bike (whatever brand you decide on) from a good bike shop. The first problem is your size and stock suspension. Most forks and shocks are made for 150 lb. stick boys. You will get on a new bike and use most of the travel sitting still. Make sure you and the shop get it clear that springs and such need to be for your weight. Do a little research on the fork and shock you are considering. When you mount the bike check the "sag". I'm a 220 lb. rider myself. Whenever I buy a new fork, I have to shop for a kit and rebuild it to make it usable. The alternative to this is air suspension. It will still have limits and it can be a bit harsh.

[cyber_hawke]

One bike that I had been thinking about is the Jamix XCR Expert. The bike shop has promised to change springs to match my weight. Is the Specialized Stumpjumper fsr comp the same as the specialized fsr comp?

How does KHS compare against Jamis or Giant? Someone sent me an email suggesting the Marin Rift Zone...it looks good in the web site. I took out a Kona Kikapu deluxe and it did not impress me. The granny gear was too high and it bounced all over the place going uphill.

[rockyrider]

The KHS XC-604 is pretty much their version of the old Spec FSR with a licensed version of the Spec FSR Horst Link suspension.

The Jamis XCR is a Faux-bar version of the Spec FSR, so it is similar to the XC-604 and Specialized FSR, but will have a bit different behaviour under braking, with the rear suspension stiffening when braking. It will be similar to the Kona which is also a Faux-bar rear suspension.

The Giant Trance with the Maestro suspension is more sophisticated in terms of it's behaviour under pedaling. It should be more active when climbing with less bob.

[cyber_hawke]

Thanks Rockyrider,

If I understood you correctly, the KHS, Jamis and Specialized FSR all have the Faux Bar Suspension? Is the only major difference then the components they are putting on the bikes?

I did take Trance 1 around the block in Hood River OR and was impressed with its ride, I just couldnt fork over the $2.5K that they wanted for it. Will the Trance 2 allow me to "lock out" or dampen the rear suspension on the climbs? I am not sure that I need the 6" suspension of the Reign as I am not going to be making the jumps that my son makes...this old man will watch those 10' leaps...heck, not even sure my heart can stand that much adrenaline! ha ha

[rockyrider]

Specialized is the original four-bar design that has the patent. KHS licenses the patent for some bikes like XC-604 and uses the legit four bar design.

The Jamis and Kona are a faux bar, they move the pivot near the axle to beat the patent but in doing so turn the rear suspension into a single pivot type rear suspension with some compromise in suspension performance under braking.

The Trance/Reign use a platform type rear shock and the Maestro design which helps cancel suspension bob from pedaling while allowing it to absorb bumps while climbing, and it helps push the rear wheel down to allow it to follow rough terrain while climbing, so you wouldn't need to lock it out, it remains supple but minimizes bob.

The Trance 2 has the same frame as the Trance 1 or 0, it just has some heavier components, so it's a good starting point for an upgradable bike.

[cyber_hawke]

OH NO! More confusion!!

I went to Pensacola and couldn't find anyone with a 17.5 inch Trance II. I did take the Jamis for a ride as well as the Marlin. Both were OK. Then I took a Fisher Supercaliber 29 for a ride, what a difference. I was riding in sand and gravel with no incline but the bike felt really solid.

The dealer said I could have it for $2100 out the door, which is a lot cheaper than some of the others.

What do you all think of a 29? or should I drive over to the next city and give the Trance 2 another look?

[1mystk]

What do you all think of a 29?

I love my 29...learned how to ride on a 29er and will never look back:D And I never rode before, mountain bike or otherwise. Most stable ride for me by far and I have tried a few 26ers with full sussy to compare.

I'd say try the Trance if you really feel you need to... you know you can always go back to the other bike shop and pick up that 29er.:D So it doesn't hurt if you are curious.

I may not be experienced as most on this forum, but when something feels right and comfy? Why not?

I took my diSSent for a ride and immediately felt the difference, told Peter at Misfit Psycles that the bike was staying with it's new owner... me!


Good luck! Tell us how it goes :)

[jerman]

CyberHawk,
If the Fisher felt good, then I would go with it. That is a really nice bike.

[cyber_hawke]

OK, so after I got home a guy from IBEX called (I had posted a question on his website) and told me the 29 bikes suck going uphill....twice as much work, blah blah and recommended this bike

http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-EXP-X9-Details.html

Which is almost 1/2 the price of the fisher. Does anyone know anything about IBEX and can they give me some advice about 29" bikes being hard to climb because the wheels are so much bigger that you need a granny gear of at least 22/36.???

[rockyrider]

The IBEX would be fairly equal to the Jamis XCR, same faux-bar rear suspension. Price is sure cheap.

A 29" wheel bike is a bit harder to climb with as the wheels are larger in diameter, but it is just a couple of teeth worth. You might need to downshift to the 22/34 instead of the 22/30 for a steep climb, but you wouldn't need gears that aren't available. You might not climb as fast is all.

On the trails around Mt.St.Helens, Hood River and down the east slopes into Bend, OR, and down the coast to the MacKenzie River trail, a 29'er would be quite happy, you can take advantage of the momentum they carry. Call up Mike at Universal Cycles (http://www.universalcycles.com/) in Portland and ask him about his 29" epiphany riding on the trails around Mt.St.Helens.

[cyber_hawke]

Sounds like you might be from that area. I will call Mike tomorrow, but expect that the shop will be closed on Sunday..will try monday from work.

The IBEX looks like a sweet deal, but if it were a piece of junk, then I would be stuck with it for a while. Would rather wait a little and buy a good bike. I think that if I am going to go with a 26inch, then one of the Trances will be the way to go. just need to find a sweet deal.

But will call on the Gary Fisher cuz it just felt good riding it...the bike was too big, but liked the way it felt. Dampened the suspension for the road and it was solid and tight, two quick turns and it was back to full suspension....

On bike fit...it seems like most of the standing heights are about the same. Should I be buying a size based on that or on how easy it is to drop off the rear of the saddle for going down steep hills?

[rockyrider]

I've made a few trips south of the border from here to Oregon, and Washington around Mt.St.Helens. Haven't been down there since 2003. I like the trails in that part of the world. They tend to be drier than around here.

Mike tried a 29" bike a year ago and decided he couldn't go back to 26" wheeled bikes.

Buy for the fit when pedaling, everything else is a special case. Or consider a Gravity Dropper or Speedball seatpost to allow you to drop the seat for descending. Although with practice you'll find that you can get surprisingly far behind the seat when descending...

[peatbog]

Isn’t Ibex the mail order only place? That isn’t good for your first bike. What if you have a problem? You just can’t go to your dealer and have it looked at and taken care of. As mentioned by others, the most important thing is to find a dealer you trust and can work with. What if you find the perfect bike, but want a shorter stem (for instance) so you can set up more--or maybe a different seat? Maybe the dealer will get that for you when you buy the bike so you don’t have to buy it later. It is also hard to determine exactly how the bike fits you until you have ridden it awhile. What is good riding around the parking lot might not be good blasting through the woods. Having a local dealer to work with you to get the fit the way you want it would be a good thing. The brand of bike isn’t as important as having a good dealer to work with you, especially on your first bike.
Also, the 29er argument doesn’t matter that much either. Are you racing? If not, then why does going up hills matter? Just shift down a gear and go slower. The whole 29er thing is a matter of opinion. Some people swear by 29ers; some think they are stupid. Doesn’t matter. Buy what you like. How the bike fits you is more important than what brand it is or what size tires it has. Ride a bunch of them and buy the one that puts the biggest smile on your face. Doesn’t matter how fast it is or how much better deal it is than the next bike. It just matters if it will put that smile on your face so you want to keep riding. In other words, but the bike that is the most fun.

[LeeMcGough]

I agree with the last post wholeheartedly. Buy local, preferably from someone with a demo bike or two. Don't worry too much about a great price, you will find that biking costs more than you thought it would. The sticker price is never the end of it. You will probably want a hydration pack, maybe different tires, stem, a helmet, tools, tubes ( I somehow got over 30 flats last year ) etc., etc., etc. When you are buying all of this stuff from the same person, and they have gotten to know you, you will notice that prices become a little more fluid. No taxes ( if applicable in your area ), or deals if you buy two tires, and so on. Also, most shops have maintenence deals that come with the purchase of a bike. Most shops will tune your bike for free for the first year, true wheels, etc. at no cost to you. You will probably also find out where good local trails are, and someone to ride with. I know the online stuff looks like a deal, but appearances can be deceiving.

[cyber_hawke]

So would you recommend a small local bike shop or perhaps a larger store like Performance Bikes?

[rockyrider]

Any place that values your money and business and has the products you need.

[LeeMcGough]

An independent shop is probably the best. My LBS isn't actually a dealer for lots of the bikes he manages to get into his shop. The problem with chains is that they frequently have little say over what they charge for stuff. An independent has more control over their prices. Another point in favour of the independent shops is the generally lower volume of sales, which leaves them with more time for each customer that does come through the door. Whichever shop can tolerate you dropping in for long browsing sessions and doesn't pressure you into a sale is best though, regardless of whether it is an indy or not. Guess this doesn't really help then, does it?;)

[cyber_hawke]

Hmm, now that worries me. The two or three independent bike shops I have been in, quickly talked me out of the $1700 bike into the absolute minimum bike I need costs $2500.....and then they started to talk about all the other stuff I just had to have to even ride an easy trail.

Sure wish I could find an honest little guy or gal that I could start developing a business/customer relationship with.

[jerman]

Hawk,
It is sometimes hard to find a good LBS. I have bought from several in my area over the years. I know how you feel. What did you decide about the Fisher 29er? That is a really nice bike and it looked like the guy was giving you a decent price on it too.
I just rode my 29er for the first time today and it was awsome.

[rockyrider]

Just tell them that you'd bite if they'd sell you the $2500 bike for $1700. Any sensible sales person should recognize that when you set a firm budget number, it's a firm budget number.

[cyber_hawke]

I hate to put toys on the CC, so I am putting my pennies together to pick it up at the end of the month. He went down to $2100 out the door. I know that he still made money on it, but he will set it up. Wish I knew what wholesale on the bike was...would give me a better place to dicker from.

[plume_mtb]

Hmm, now that worries me. The two or three independent bike shops I have been in, quickly talked me out of the $1700 bike into the absolute minimum bike I need costs $2500.....and then they started to talk about all the other stuff I just had to have to even ride an easy trail.

Sure wish I could find an honest little guy or gal that I could start developing a business/customer relationship with.

You can get on a trail worthy f/s bike for 1350, the Jamis XLT. The other stuff is probably pretty accurate. Don't forget about a multi tool: complete with allen wrenches, chain tool, tire levers. A pump you can carry w/ you, a spare tube, or two. Food. Helmet, gloves, shoes, jerseys.... yep ridin' aint cheap.

[jerman]

I hate to put toys on the CC, so I am putting my pennies together to pick it up at the end of the month. He went down to $2100 out the door. I know that he still made money on it, but he will set it up. Wish I knew what wholesale on the bike was...would give me a better place to dicker from.

So what kind of bike is it?

[cyber_hawke]

The bike I was considering was a Gary Fisher Supercaliber 29. It really rode nice, but it was also the only LBS that let me take the bike out of the parking lot.

I have heard a lot about 26 vs 29 inch wheels. I will be doing a lot, and I mean a lot of climbing....which for an old fart that is out of shape and overweight is scaring the heck out of me. Some one told that the 29s roll over stuff easier (duh) but are tough on climbing. IF that is true, then I need to go back to the drawing board and relook at 26s. My Jamis LBS thinks that the sun rises and sets with the XCR Expert (but he cant seem to get one in).

Others swear by the Stumpjumper fsr comp or Giant Trance..to tell the truth, I am just blown away by it all.

As for all the stuff that goes with it. I do have a Cannondale Touring bike that has all the little stuff thats critical out on the road....just need a different spare tube, (I hope)

[tryandgetme]

I don't feel that my 29er is any harder to climb with at all. It's only 10% extra diameter anyway. If anything it's better, because obsticles like roots that I might have to ride over while climbing are easier to roll over.

[rockyrider]

Frankly the extra climbing effort due to the diameter could easily be replicated in a 26" wheel by having heavy tires versus lighter tires. It just helps build fitness, until then, well you don't climb as fast.

[plume_mtb]

I don't feel that my 29er is any harder to climb with at all. It's only 10% extra diameter anyway. If anything it's better, because obsticles like roots that I might have to ride over while climbing are easier to roll over.

I don't have a ton of experience on a 29" bike but for the 2 hours I got to ride one the extra effort on the climbs was noticable, so sorry I don't agree with that. I think 29ers are really cool and I have friends who are really fast on them but I think the advantage is really geared towards taller folks. I prefer the "flickability" of the 26 inch wheel, and while the disadvantages are obvious, they don't out weigh the advantages for me. Could've been the fact that the bike was heavy to begin with? Obviously a pimped out 29er would be easier to climb with, but I'm still not sold on it - for me...

Back to the 26" bikes, as far as the Jamis XCR is concerned, it's also a great bike and it'll climb better than the XLT for sure. The XCR is basically a pretty nice f/s racey bike. I wouldn't call it a full out XC racing bike but it's close, especially the full XTR build version. I have two co-workers on them and they love 'em. I still can't give up my hardtail so what do I know any way? It made them both faster on the descents, that's for sure!

I'm surprised that he can't get the XCR in, what does he have in stock? Is that Fisher a full suspension?

[cyber_hawke]

Being in the Florida Panhandle, there is not a lot of demand for mountain bikes and also not a lot of expertise out there. The shop that sells Jamis has tried to convince me that the XCR Expert is the best bike out there for an entry level rider that is not ever going to race. BUT, for some reason, he cant get any of the bikes in through his distributer in "Miami"?

It seems that if the wheels are 10% larger and the gear stays the same, that it would take more effort to get up the same incline. The switchbacks up in Washington State were killers on a 22/32 granny gear and tolerable on a 22/34. I guess you could compensate for the difference with a 22/36 set up...that would be close. (?)

The Gary Fisher was a SuperCaliber 29, though I did start by looking at a HiFi Plus. The frame looked a lot like the jamis to tell the truth. I have also been looking around for a Giant dealer to go back and compare the Trance with thoughts of buying a Trance 2 or 3 as a starter.

Meanwhile, the Air Force has directed me to move to the Washington DC area...anyone know of any nice trails up there?

[Nick Verstain]

The DC area has great trails, most of them a short drive (or ride) away in Virginia and Maryland. Check out the Mid-Atlantic Off-Road Enthusiasts (MORE) website and you'll be glad you came. There's a UCI MTB race this weekend at Greenbrier State Park north of Baltimore. Baltimore is home to both Chris Eatough and Marla Streb... nuff said. Buy a bike when you get out there... East Coast is all about rocks, roots, mud, intense technical climbs and even more intense descents.

[jimilton80401]

IMHO, for your first nice bike, go with the tried and true standard first time out. Especially if you don't live near a specialty dealer who deals with this stuff routinely. Finding easy replacement parts, etc will quickly sap the joy out of your experience.
I've found that the Specialized Horst Link four bar design is a great suspension platform and there is much less wear and tear on the drivetrain, especially the chain. My old faux bar design would go through several chains each season, where my horst link bike appears to be easier on them. It brakes and climbs better as well.
The Giant Maestro design is supposedly a version of the four bar design but I can't say if it shares similar advantages to the Horst Link.
good luck and keep us posted on your decision

[jerman]

Hawk,
Did you ever decide on a bike? Inquiring minds want to know.:)

[Rock Star]

Hawk Did you ever decide on a bike? Inquiring minds want to know.:)

I think he's still narrowing it down. The discussion continues here;

http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14036

[cyber_hawke]

One of the problems with being an engineer is that you tend to analyze yourself into never making a decision. Couple of factors here though, waiting on house to close to get the cash and waiting to move to ship the bike. I will be buying a bike by the end of June and am really trying to narrow the field to the best choice. Even made a spreadsheet by bike type, cost and components....

I have taken test rides on several of the bikes, but in watching the different MTB mags, there are a couple that I havent found a shop that handles them in the Panhandle yet. I did ride the Trance 1 again two weeks ago on a pretty technical ride and the pedals kept hitting rocks and roots...

Any advice?

[mimbresman]

My brother is an engineer and will make a matrix for decision making for example; when buying a used car for his daughter.

I have these same tendencies, but being a science teacher, my pockets aren't as deep, so my decision making is usually about bang-for-the-buck.

I worked two jobs to justify buying my first Merlin back in 1990, I knew that is what I wanted. I still call the Merlin (now generation 3) "my Porsche" because on a teacher's salary, it was. I still get a thrill when I ride it. I love that bike!