white ind. Double Double

[singletrackmind]

Have any of you tried the double double set up. I was thinking of getting one but I was wondering if they could be used with a tensioner instead of slinding dropouts. My ss Does not have sliding drops. The chain line is not a problem. I was thinking if i got a tensioner with a roller instead of a pulley then it might work . I dont want to have to re-adjust the tensioner every time and i dont want the tensioner to derail the chain. Also i cant find it in QBP does BTI have them?

The bike- Dirt Research columbus Thron steel frame fully rigid currant red, Phil hubs on red 0 degree xc rims. Paul motolites and love levers. currently with race face cranks. but wouldn't the white industries double double be perfect.

[2dumb4gears]

The whole point of the double-double is that you don't need to readjust tensioner length, etc. When you "switch gears", chain length is the same. So, you simply loosen the back wheel to slack the chain, pull it over, and then move the wheel back to it's original position. As long as you have horizontal rear drops, an eccentric BB, or are lucky enough to have "perfect length" stays, this will work fine. If you're using a singleator, etc., my guess is that you'll have to trim it in/out as you switch the gears as well.

[jerman]

The whole point of the double-double is that you don't need to readjust tensioner length, etc. When you "switch gears", chain length is the same. So, you simply loosen the back wheel to slack the chain, pull it over, and then move the wheel back to it's original position. As long as you have horizontal rear drops, an eccentric BB, or are lucky enough to have "perfect length" stays, this will work fine. If you're using a singleator, etc., my guess is that you'll have to trim it in/out as you switch the gears as well.

OK, I tried to follow you but I am lost. How does the chain lenght stay the same. If you are switching gear ratios, wouldnt that change the lenght of the chain in relation to the wheel position?:confused:

[2dumb4gears]

No,because you take teeth from the front chainring, and add them to the cog. So, a 32-16 takes the exact same chainlength as a 34-14 or a 30-18; all very different ratios, with the same number of total teeth.

[jerman]

DUH!! I get it now. Thanks!

[cMc]

Mmmm.... Double double. I only eat those about once a year, but it's been about a year... :cool:

[myron]

Uno, dos (http://psyclestore.com/product_info.php?cPath=29_33&products_id=125), one, two, tres, quatro
Matty told Hatty about a thing she saw.

[nogearshere]

You cannot use a double double with a traditional tensioner (easily).

You would need to modify the tensioners chainline each and every time you swapped ratios.

It is very possible that with the use of half-links you MAY be able to get by without a tensioner...alternatively you could got for the grande-supreme-ultimo drive train and add an eccentric hub to the plans...that will work soundly.

i have used the DOS for some time, i have even mocked up several ghetto versions of the DOS if you care...and i like the colour blue.

[davkatreb]

I've been considering a similar setup on my singleated HooKoo, but on the cheap. I figure I can run a freehub and two cogs, using spacers to get everything to line up with both chainrings.

I really wouldn't expect chainline to be that big an issue when using a Singleator. I'd expect that if you're using an 8 speed chain it would tolerate a little sideways deflection. Heck, my chainline isn't all that perfect now and it's only a tiny bit noisy.

Anyway, when I get my new wheels I'll let yinz know how it works out. Of course, first I've got to convince the guy at the LBS that the Paul's Motolite Z brakes he got me aren't the Motolite BMX brakes that I specifically asked for and thus won't accomodate 700 rims. Almost three bills for brake calipers and he wants me to just bodge something together. Sheesh.

[rockhound]

I figure I can run a freehub and two cogs, using spacers to get everything to line up with both chainrings.


The Surly cogs are already wide enough to be placed side by side and be perfectly spaced for 9 speed, so it would match a front crank with 9 speed spacing.

[davkatreb]

The Surly cogs are already wide enough to be placed side by side and be perfectly spaced for 9 speed, so it would match a front crank with 9 speed spacing.
Yep, that's what I'm looking at. Low sixties for bombing on the flats, plus something around fifty inches when it gets hilly. All I really need, plus with a Singleator I don't even need to unbolt the wheel.

[nogearshere]

Yep, that's what I'm looking at. Low sixties for bombing on the flats, plus something around fifty inches when it gets hilly. All I really need, plus with a Singleator I don't even need to unbolt the wheel.

so long as they arent ramped they work bomber.

my current dingle is a 42:16 and 32:19 monster. exactly 2 links out no axle movement...with two kmc master links its a 2 minute change.

[rockhound]

Yep, that's what I'm looking at. Low sixties for bombing on the flats, plus something around fifty inches when it gets hilly. All I really need, plus with a Singleator I don't even need to unbolt the wheel.

If you're frame has horizontal dropouts (sorry, track ends) or an EBB, you don't need the Singleator if you get the right gears as mentioned above.

[nogearshere]

dingle is the future of single.

one of these days i am going to explore the use of a device to switch ratios without getting dirty...i am thinking say...a remote control on the handle bar.
16048

16049

16050

16051

16052

[rockyrider]

dingle is the future of single.

one of these days i am going to explore the use of a device to switch ratios without getting dirty...i am thinking say...a remote control on the handle bar.Maybe the cogs and chainrings could have some sort of shaping to make it easier for that on the fly change between the big and little gears. You might be on to something big here.

[rockhound]

dingle is the future of single.


How many different links are on that chain?

[nogearshere]

How many different links are on that chain?

1x Z610HX chain
2x Z610HX master links
1x Z510 1/2 link

its all on the up and up...despite being very dirty...

(the Z510 is the only 3/32" half link for the 610)

[1mystk]

dingle is the future of single.

one of these days i am going to explore the use of a device to switch ratios without getting dirty...i am thinking say...a remote control on the handle bar.



No WAY! That is weird looking... how does it all work out?

[Nick Verstain]

I dunno, next thing people are gonna start putting some kind of shock absorption devices on their bikes, jumping around like damn fools. If that happens, there goes the whole damn sport. Might as well ride a motorcycle.

[nogearshere]

oh crippity crap.
Multiple chainwheel and sprocket systems without remote control

Bernard Cadot’s three/four-speed (1893)

Eighteen months after Wilson’s patent came No. 15,838 of 1893 - a sign of Gallic interest, as it was in the name of Bernard Cadot, a retired civil engineer of 27 Rue Caumartin, Paris.

Cadot’s system involved a configuration familiar enough (at first sight) to modern cyclists - a multiple chainwheel with multiple sprockets, typically three of each. A nine-speed derailleur, you might think.

But no, Cadot was merely echoing the old principle of two or more parallel drive systems, each offering a different speed - and without remote control. To change speed, Cadot proposed a chain "capable of being instantaneously opened by the employment of suitable links". In other words, the rider had to dismount, unclip the chain, move it to another chainline (and a different combination of chainwheel and sprocket) and clip the chain together again.

The system thus typically offered three speeds. As there was no device to take up chain slack, the sum of the number of teeth of each combination of chainwheel and sprocket had to be the same. Interestingly, showing perhaps the influence of industrial continuously variable opposed cone belt-drive systems and stepped pulleys, Cadot referred to his multiple chainwheel and sprocket clusters as "toothed cones" or "stepped wheels" (see patent illustration below).

[rockyrider]

The ancients are always stealing our ideas

[singletrackmind]

SO... I figured it out. I now run a 32 and a 44 up front with a 17 on the back with a singleator. I had the correct chain for the 32 -17 and I added 3 links and a second masterlink. SO know i ride 44 17 to the trail and then take out the three links to ride the 32 -17 in the woods.

It came to me in a moment of enlightenment this morning.

It is much cheaper than any other dingle set up and works perfectly.

[myron]

*What if I ride faster or slower depending on the terrain? It sounds crazy, but I think it just might work.*


*This post shall not be used against me, if in the future I should decide to do a four speed set up.*

............also internal gear hubs don't count.

So long as an actual derailluer is not used I guess it's all good (http://www.dirtragmag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13989)

[nogearshere]

It is much cheaper than any other dingle set up and works perfectly.

nu uh.
mine is cheaper then yours by 10% plus interest.
oh and mine works more perfecter.

[1mystk]

nu uh.
mine is cheaper then yours by 10% plus interest.
oh and mine works more perfecter.

The question of the day is.... <drum roll>

Would a "dingle" benefit me as I still refuse to do gears unless on a road bike... but to ride to trail and have another option to change it up when I get to the trail...would this do anything to help aid in fitness - even just a smigden??

Easy peasy for a gal like me? Help me understand Noggins:D

[nogearshere]

Would a "dingle" benefit me as I still refuse to do gears unless on a road bike...
Yes.
...would this do anything to help aid in fitness - even just a smigden??
Yes. Provided you are currently 'spinning out' on the road. It will allow you to add resistance and get where ever faster. If you still struggle with some climbs on the road you will only be working your walking muscles.
For the record I think 'smigden' is what the Oppendipple's used to put on their toast with tea.

Easy peasy for a gal like me? Help me understand Noggins:D
Is this a trick question?
You will be fine. You do have exterior protective mini-pants with a grease proof enclosure pouch and octagonal lever or pry device for the drive modification?

[tryandgetme]

octagonal lever. genius.

*stores that one away for future use*

[1mystk]

Yes to dingle then? Set me up then!

Yes.

Yes I am currently spinning out on the road and sometimes on the trails. Except for when I climb and I find I am spinning on that too... but it could be the tires? Back wheel can't keep up with my mashing down on the pedals. I meant to say 'smidgen'. Meaning small amount...


Yes. Provided you are currently 'spinning out' on the road. It will allow you to add resistance and get where ever faster. If you still struggle with some climbs on the road you will only be working your walking muscles.
For the record I think 'smigden' is what the Oppendipple's used to put on their toast with tea.

Protective mini-pants? I wear baggies now... gave up the spandex... grease proof enclosure pouch? The who? What? Where? Drive modification? ...Er... Um... sure:confused:
Is this a trick question?
You will be fine. You do have exterior protective mini-pants with a grease proof enclosure pouch and octagonal lever or pry device for the drive modification?

[rockyrider]

I believe he's referring to having a pocket in your shorts to carry the necessary derailling tool to nudge the chain off of one ring onto the other. You always push it off the bigger cog first to get some slack and then move the other end to the bigger cog. Or the method that puts less strain on the chain (mainly in the plain in Spain), you'd loosen the sliding dropouts, move the chain, tension and tighten the dropouts again. That involves both a greasy stick and a tool in your shorts (so to speak). :D

[nogearshere]

Yes to dingle then? Set me up then!
i love it when you dont ask the cost...


Yes I am currently spinning out on the road and sometimes on the trails. Except for when I climb and I find I am spinning on that too... but it could be the tires? Back wheel can't keep up with my mashing down on the pedals. I meant to say 'smidgen'. Meaning small amount...
this is nary the place for mtb101 but spinning uphills is neither your ratio not tires fault. pull bars, pull!


Protective mini-pants? I wear baggies now... gave up the spandex... grease proof enclosure pouch? The who? What? Where? Drive modification? ...Er... Um... sure:confused:
well i guess zero for three is good if correct answers gave you say cancer or something...

[1mystk]

Yes well ... you will just have to figure out what gears the dingle will be... let's set the black steed up with it... but first we fix the raw gal then trade again...

i love it when you dont ask the cost...

Hey, wait... I thought that this forum was about mtb101?:rolleyes: Pull bars, Pull?? WTF? I do pull on the bars! I swear! I grunt! I howl with the wolves... what more?:D

this is nary the place for mtb101 but spinning uphills is neither your ratio not tires fault. pull bars, pull!

No, not cancer, I'm a Gemini (birthday in a few weeks) I will be 2.85 of a century years old:rolleyes:

well i guess zero for three is good if correct answers gave you say cancer or something...

[real_ss_budgie]

a double is my way of saying...limpet.

[1mystk]

a double is my way of saying...limpet.

i'm not a limpet ... I am just being curious <shrugs shoulders>

[WunSpeedWunder]

i'm not a limpet ... I am just being curious <shrugs shoulders>

Yeah ,but what did curiosity do for the cat?:D

[rockyrider]

a double is my way of saying...limpet.That's Mr.Limpet to you....

[davkatreb]

a double is my way of saying...limpet.
WTF is a "limpet"? Maybe you should try keeping the bong and the computer in separate rooms.

[real_ss_budgie]

Limpets are marine gastropod molluscs in the order Patellogastropoda with flattened, cone-shaped shells. They live throughout the intertidal zone, from the high zone (upper littoral) to the shallow subtidal on the rocky coasts of most oceans.

[davkatreb]

Limpets are marine gastropod molluscs in the order Patellogastropoda with flattened, cone-shaped shells. They live throughout the intertidal zone, from the high zone (upper littoral) to the shallow subtidal on the rocky coasts of most oceans.
So I suspected. But riddle me this, Captain Crunchy: What do marine molluscs have to do with mountain biking?

Specifically, why would a mountain biker's choice of drivetrain imbue said biker with the traits of the aforementioned mollusc?

Or should we all maybe just shut up and ride?

[real_ss_budgie]

So I suspected. But riddle me this, Captain Crunchy:

Or should we all maybe just shut up and ride?
nah mate im chilling in the shed with a keg full of burning timber at 11pm..no booze no bongs no bike ride..just ray charles singing in the background, trolling the net for stuff.

[rockyrider]

...or was it a comment on the fact that a limpet is a relative of the snail? :D

[davkatreb]

...or was it a comment on the fact that a limpet is a relative of the snail? :D
Who the f*ck knows? But if that's the case, the boy is full of shit.

I don't know about yinz, but the 42:18 on my SS cruiser is about perfect for around town and the towpath. The 32:16 on my Monocog is about right for the woods. It would sure be great to have both ratios (or something close) available on one bike. That way I could haul ass to the woods, ride some trails and then beat it back to town.

I don't need to shift on the fly. I don't WANT to shift on the fly. That's why it's called a Singlespeed, DUH!

But it sure would be nice to get a bit more use out of one bike without putting it in the work stand to repurpose it.

And so what if I am slow? I ain't racing and I've said it before:

1-You're in the woods.
2-You're on a bike.
3-The faster you go, the sooner you're OUT of the woods and OFF your bike.

SOWHATSYOURGODDAMHURRY?????

[1mystk]

And so what if I am slow? I ain't racing and I've said it before:

1-You're in the woods.
2-You're on a bike.
3-The faster you go, the sooner you're OUT of the woods and OFF your bike.

SOWHATSYOURGODDAMHURRY?????

I AM probably the slowest they can get about now :D ... But I do agree with your 3 points there... I love the woods, nature, the smell of fresh air.

[tryandgetme]

if you ride fast so you're out of the woods sooner, you can always turn around and try the other loop too. faster only means out of the woods sooner if there's scary inclimate weather. Ride for your own pace, not some imaginary speed calculated to keep you from ending the loop. just do another lap. whatever makes you happy.

[1mystk]

if you ride fast so you're out of the woods sooner, you can always turn around and try the other loop too. faster only means out of the woods sooner if there's scary inclimate weather. Ride for your own pace, not some imaginary speed calculated to keep you from ending the loop. just do another lap. whatever makes you happy.

one day i may be fast... so this is when i'll finally be able to say ... try-and-get-me!:D

[tryandgetme]

I can only go fast for about 50 feet. Oh well. I can;t really climb trees very well either.

[rockyrider]

This is important information when riding with other people in bear country. You have to make sure that anyone you ride with can only go fast for about 40'. Then the tree climbing thing won't matter. (not that it would with black bears, they are very good tree climbers and of course grizzlies are big enough to knock smaller trees over).

[rockhound]

Did you take that pic, Rocky?

[phlatlander]

Did you take that pic, Rocky?

I don't think so. I googled "black bear up tree" and an entire page full of this very photo.

Does it not look like an orange tabby cat is sitting on the ground? :)

Back on topic: I will review the double double soon.

EDIT: Maybe it was this cat? (http://www.whatjeffkilled.com/)

[myron]

I hear non stop bitching on my rides about the sound of my frewheel. That alone makes it worth it.

[rockyrider]

Did you take that pic, Rocky?No, but I could have taken one just like it last year, only it was a 1 year old cub up a fir tree in my front yard. It was frightened up the tree by kids.