A tale of 2 Slayers

[rockyrider]

I've already declared my unreasonable and somewhat fanatical bias towards Rocky Mountain bikes, but I'll repeat it here for consistency. I really like Rocky bikes and I'm a commerce slave to my local Rocky dealer.

That said, I've lived with a 2006 Slayer 70 since January 2006, and I have enjoyed it's Hummer like ability to roll over just about anything and the confidence inspiring geometry. It is a big bike that could be pedaled uphill as well as ridden down hills. It is very plush in feel and soaked up big roots and rocks wonderfully. It was equipped with a Fox TALAS 36 and that was a very useful item as it really benefited from being able to crank the travel down when climbing moderately steep hills. I had always assumed that was just the way 6x6 bikes handled when pointed uphill. As a result I tended to ride my 4x4 bike more often and reserved the Slayer 70 for stuff that was well and truly gnarly and usually needed a vehicle to access the trailhead.

This June while I was at the UCI World Cup races at Saint Felicien in Quebec I had a chance for a demo ride on the 2007 Slayer SXC 70 and found that it was much more toward the Trail bike side of All Mountain rather than the light Freeride side. It doesn't sit as far into it's travel for static sag as the Slayer 70. What I was really impressed with was the balance the bike had. With the TALAS at full extension it still felt neutral and climbed well. What I really liked was that the SXC responded well to climbing out of the saddle, so those short steep uphills where you really needed the extra oomph to get up really worked well. The SXC also climbed nicely in rocky rooty technical stuff when seated.

I had a chance to pickup a Slayer SXC Canuck edition this past week and have been riding it on my local trails to get a sense of whether the Saint Felicien experience was a one off or if it would be duplicated here. So far I have found the Slayer SXC to be ideal for my riding style, it helps make up for a certain lack of eye/hand coordination and skills like the Slayer 70 did, but the plus is that it doesn't penalize my ability or interest in climbing and riding XC trails.

Where the original Slayer 70 felt big and burly, the Slayer SXC feels big and nimble. It's like riding a version of the Rocky Element on steroids. Where I would consider throwing the Slayer 70 into the car to get to a trailhead, the Slayer SXC really feels like it wouldn't be a drag to ride on the road to get to the trailhead, and that's with the same tire/wheel combo on the SXC.

My SXC weighs about 2 pounds less than the '06 Slayer 70 but feels more nimble than that. My SXC has a Rock Shox Lyrik instead of a TALAS 36, and so far I haven't felt the need to consider an adjustable travel fork, the bike feels so well balanced that even climbing some steep long hills and a steep rock face today it was easy to keep pointed the right way.

I think the 2006 Slayer 70 will soon be on the block as there can be only one Slayer (http://www.buffyguide.com/episodes/faithhope/faithhopesyn.shtml).

[LeeMcGough]

Rocky, I have to ask. What exactly do you do for a living? I can't afford to keep my bikes all running at the same time, and I sure as hell don't own eight of them. Is your employer hiring? I am willing to relocate from the flat South Western Ontario region to "where the clouds live " for a job that pays in Rocky Mountains:D . Have to talk it over with the wife too, but I don't think she'd mind.

[rockyrider]

Bikes are just a hobby. I'm self employed as a construction industry consultant, no wifey, no kidlets and I'm old enough that I've all but given up chasing skirts. It's amazing how much money that saves. :D :cool:

[rockyrider]

For those of you missing the subtle hardware difference between one Slayer and the other (the red/white versus grey/black is obvious enough), I've attached a picture comparing the two.

The top image is the SXC and it uses a faux bar type of single pivot design with a carbon seat stay and a pivot above the axle. The swingarm is also asymmetric and uses a bit heftier tube section on the chainstays to help make it stiffer. It is much more linear in the shock performance, and is very much like many other 6x6 faux bar FS bikes in that respect.

The original Slayer pictured on the bottom uses a single pivot rigid swing arm with a more complicated multi-linkage pivot connection for the shock to tinker with the rising rate of the suspension. This allowed it to be really plush and squishy through the first half of the travel and then ramp up as it nears the end of the travel.

That ends todays lesson... :rolleyes:

[Spalls]

Rocky: Inquiring minds want to know. Do the brakes on your new Slayer wootle?

[LeeMcGough]

Could the piggyback shock claim some responsibility for the added plushness of the new Slayer Rocky? There's somewhere for the air to go, so it shouldn't stiffen up the suspension nearly as fast. I know a few people who love the old Slayer, but they are kinda huck oriented people, not as interested in pedalling a bike up a hill so much as tearing down it.

[rockyrider]

Yes indeed the Avids woodle, loudly, they did on the original Slayer and they do on this bike. In fact I have a set of the new 160/185 G2 rotors and a set of the organic pads coming to see if the woodle-ness of the Juicy brakes can be controlled. The thing that worries me most about the woodling is not knowing what mating call it might be similar to.

The SXC 70 that I test rode at St.Felicien had the DHX Air shock, and the mechanic was about my size so he set it up with the same pressures as he used and it rode pretty similar to my Canuck edition. I imagine that it should have more adjustability than the RP3 so it could be set to be plusher early in the travel for a bit more small bump sensitivity. The SXC 50 comes with the RP23 shock instead of the DHX, so this isn't a horrible compromise or anything, and I do like a half pound weight saving.

I'm an anomaly in this part of the world, everyone seems to want to ride big hit bikes downhill at high speeds and on skinny things. I need the big hit bike to try to keep the wheels on the ground in the rooty technical stuff and not pointed at the sky, and for me an 18" wide ladder bridge is a skinny. :cool: (prescription lenses)

[tryandgetme]

I test rode a slayer 50 last weekend. I could NOT keep that front end on the ground climbing, too laid back and chopperish. Kickass for going down though. And it weighed a ton and wiped me out doing anything related to cross country. Would the SXC be more my riding style? Does it have a ridiculously long fork too?

[rockyrider]

That's the most interesting thing I found with the two Slayers, just the difference in normal shock riding position on the original Slayer would slacken the head angle an extra degree or so. It really rewarded committed aggressive climbing, but if you just stayed seated and ground up a steep hill it was all over the place with the fork at 150mm, very difficult to steer, but not bad when the fork was set at 110mm travel. It really needed the TALAS feature.

The SXC climbs much better with the fork at 150mm, less rear suspension sag keeps the head angle steeper. And when you need it you can sprint or climb out of the saddle without wallowing at all.

So I would generally categorize the original Slayer as a light free ride bike and the SXC as a long travel XC trail bike. I have a 160mm fork on my SXC build and it still handles surprisingly crisply. The bike has a long wheelbase and long chainstays so it isn't as manoueverable in really tight twisty single track, but on anything short of a a series of 4' radius 180 switches, it feels very nimble, more than just the 1-2 pounds of weight reduction over a Slayer 50 would suggest.

[Hand/of/Midas]

Bikes are just a hobby. I'm self employed as a construction industry consultant, no wifey, no kidlets and I'm old enough that I've all but given up chasing skirts. It's amazing how much money that saves. :D :cool:


do you have the urge to adopt a 21 year old mtn bike son?

[rockyrider]

do you have the urge to adopt a 21 year old mtn bike son?No.... no, no, no... nope... not really, no. :p :D Perhaps a couple of Vampire Slayers though.... :D

[poison idea]

there can be only one Slayer
Well written review; As always, your bike smarts are mind numbing, and i commend your tv choices but there is only one true Slayer:

[A-Town]

:D Perhaps a couple of Vampire Slayers though.... :D

Rocky, why would you want to adopt them?!?! You can't get it on with your daughters.

[rockyrider]

Rocky, why would you want to adopt them?!?! You can't get it on with your daughters.I have a problem with vampires... and raccoons, and skunks, I figure if there's a vampire shortage they can always stake some other pests.

[tryandgetme]

requirement#1 for being a vampire slayer: tight leather pants.

[CarlosN]

Hi Rockyrider,
Have had RM bikes for many years, first Element TO (demo model, circa 1997) and now ETSX70 (2003 edition). Can you pls inform on the weight of your Slayer SXC. You mention it is 2 lbs lighter. What is the exact weight (std config with pedals)? Do you also have a weight for the SXC90 and SXC50? Am based in Cape Town, South Africa, difficult to source RM bikes here. Also, cannot try bike out for proper fit. Have to rely on user feedback for this. Can you recommend a store USA or Canada that can ship? Many thanks.

[rockyrider]

My 19" SXC build with Easton Havoc AM wheels, a Maverick Speedball seatpost, and a Rock Shox Lyrik One Step 160mm fork, and Eggbeater pedals currently weighs 31.5 pounds (14.3kgs). That's just 3.6 pounds more than my ETSX-70.

The Slayer 70 weighed 33.5 pounds with 2.35 Kenda Nevegals, Candy pedals and those same wheels, fork and seat post.

The weights are going to be similar on the 90, 70 and 50. The 50 has a 200gm lighter shock and a heavier fork, the 70 and 90 have a 200gm heavier shock and lighter bits elsewhere.

You could try my local bike shop (http://www.differentbikes.ca/), I know they've shipped to various worldwide destinations.

[bitterfish26]

what are the speedballs like? im trying to get my mom to get me one for my b-day for my fat possum

[rockyrider]

They are really handy. There's a bit of rotational play in the saddle, maybe 1/8" of movement left/right at the nose of the saddle, but no play vertically or laterally at all. I've never noticed the rotational play while riding, just when lifting the bike in and out of the vehicle. It's about 150gms heavier than a premium fixed seatpost, but when the going gets steep or technical that extra 4" of nard clearance is priceless. In this part of the world you can encounter that sort of technical challenge in the middle of a mild ride, so it sure is nice not to have fuss with QR seat collars and the like.

Likely the only time you need to double check the applicability before buying one is if you have an interrupted seat tube like an FSR or a Norco or something of that nature. There's a limit to how much you can trim off the bottom and they require a fair bit of height to accommodate the moving piece.

[bitterfish26]

i have a bontrager seat post

[rockyrider]

The Speedball uses the same seat rail clamp assembly as the Bontrager. The 30.9mm Bontrager Race post is 295gms, the Speedball is about 400gms. The only gotcha to the Speedball is they are only available in 30.9mm and 31.6mm diameter.

[rockyrider]

This is the second ride on the SXC with the PUSH'd RP3 with the large air chamber. It feels more compliant in the middle of the travel range and doesn't ramp up so much in the last bit of travel. I didn't have the feeling that I was blowing through the travel, although the o-ring on the shaft indicates I likely managed to get 100% travel at least once on the ride. It doesn't affect the ability to attack short steep climbs, and still seems to balance well against the Lyrik Solo.

I'll have to switch back again to get a real sense of which works best. Now that both shocks have the BETD Strong bushing kits, it's a snap to swap the spacers/bushings between the shocks, so a shock swap should only take 5-6 minutes.

I was once again reminded of how XC this bike feels, it doesn't feel that big considering it has a 46" wheelbase and a tall 14.125" BB height. It pedals really well. And the long chainstays make it a star at a rough techincal climbs.

[bitterfish26]

ive been looking at a few rocky mtn bikes ...rocky what are some good things that you have pulled form the slayers

[rockyrider]

The Slayer SXC frames are still handmade about 20 miles south of my house (as are the Element, ETSX and scandium hardtail frames). The 2006 freerider-ish 6x6 Slayer has been phased out for 2008, the 6x6 Slayer SXC (Super Cross Country) continues for 2008, which is the right move, the SXC really is the bike the 2006 Slayer should have been. They still have some of the nicest powder coat paint jobs in the biz. :D

[bitterfish26]

so what do you think about the RMX or Switch because that was what i was leaning more towards... im thinking about getting rid of one of my bikes for a rocky mountain but not sure yet because fisher has me hooked... (no pun intended) and i absolutely love fisher bikes but i think its time for a change

[rockyrider]

Both the RMX and Switch are being replaced by the Flatline for 2008. It's the bike of a million options for shock position, stroke and fork travel so it can be anything from a DH race bike to a freeride bike. The Flatline frame manufacturing is moving off-shore to try to keep the costs down. The 2008 USA market catalog (http://bikes.com/2008_preview/2008_USA_Catalog_webRes.pdf) is available as a very big PDF (40MB). And of course there's the Slayer SS (Slope Style) if you're interested in competing at Crankworx.

You can likely find some good clearance deals on the 2007 RMX's.

[bitterfish26]

alright ill check it out thanks alot

[tryandgetme]

rocky should start a bicycle consulting service. people should pay good money for this...

[rockyrider]

I take PayPal.... :D

[bitterfish26]

i should owe you atleast $5

[rockyrider]

And here's the graphic difference between the 2006 Slayer 70 and the 2007 Slayer SXC. A big difference in shock leverage ratio. This is why the Slayer 70 settled further into the travel and felt more plush, but wouldn't respond as well to out of the saddle pedaling... a big difference in the shock ratio and the changing leverage ratio.

Neither bike has much pedal kickback which means they both pedal well, but the Slayer 70's big swing in leverage ratio meant that the suspension compressed more easily and that resulted in a much slacker head angle in normal riding.

[rockyrider]

OK, some new kit has been installed on the Slayer, a 2008 Marzocchi 55 ATA fork.

The Marz 55 ATA is adjustable in travel from 125-165mm so it's possible to adjust the head angle and travel with the red knob on the right. There's no sensible explanation for how to use the TST Microadjust feature, I'll have to drop in to the Marz Canada service shop and chat with Naz and find out how this works.

The 20mm QR axle is described as cryptically as the TST. It says rotate it till the lever clicks. The first time I tried that the QR was pointing straight forward. After chatting with my LBS I found that the secret is just keep turning the lever and it ratchets like a gas cap lid, so you just keep turning it till it points somewhere sensible.

Typical Marz, the published weight of 4.67 pounds is complete fiction, likely without the steer tube. I wish they'd publish weights for a fork ready to use. The Marz 55 with a cut steer tube and star nut was 5.11 pounds. My Lyrik Solo Air was 5.04 pounds with a cut steer tube and starnut. So no weight savings to be had in switching from my Taiwanese built American Rock Shox Lyrik to the Taiwanese built Italian 55 ATA fork.

I think the busy 55 fork decal graphics may have to go. Some handcut red maple leaves and a Rocky logo would look a bit less chaotic.

[rockyrider]

Updated graphics on the Marz 55 fork. Cut some red maple leaves out of that 3M red reflective safety tape.

[LeeMcGough]

Looks nice Rocky! So now is it a Canadian Taiwanese Italian fork?

[rockyrider]

Yeahhhh, very Vancouver.

[rockyrider]

First chance for an extended ride on the Marzocchi 55 ATA fork today. It took a while to get the basic tuning organized, and there was a fair bit of tinkering just for fun. The basic 5 position TST control is fairly coarse, I have been running it in the fully opened (DH) position to keep it supple. The little gold knob is the low speed compression damping and that works a treat. It really does make a difference on a 165mm travel fork. Backed off the fork is more affected by where the rider weight is while pedaling, but cranked down 75% the fork doesn't bob at all.

The ATA travel wind-down knob is quite easy to turn, even while riding. The Marz 55 is a 125-165mm adjustable fork. It is quite a tall fork so the Slayer seems to work best with it wound down to about 150mm of travel which does match the rear end travel. I didn't ride anything steep enough to worry about wanting that extra 15mm of front fork travel today.

I expect the suppleness should improve as the fork seals break in a bit.

[rockyrider]

So I just received the bolt-on rear hub upgrade for the Easton Havoc wheels I'm running on the Slayer SXC. Nice kit, complete with new sealed bearings, a nice and easy upgrade. Bolting the rear hub onto the bike sure does stiffen up the rear swingarm assembly, a huge improvement in lateral stiffness.

If you compare the original 5mm QR axle to the 10mm stainless steel bolts you'd expect that there would be a difference in stiffness. The internal axle on the rear hub is already big (17-20mm diameter).

The diameter of the QR nut and clamp are 19mm, the diameter of the bolt head is 22m, so they also have a bigger footprint on the dropouts to help stabilize things better.

If you have Easton Havoc wheels on a FS bike, this is a nice upgrade to help stiffen up the rear end of the bike. The only possible downside is the need to carry an 8mm hex key to take the bolts off, and it needs to be long enough to apply the 150in-lbs to re-install it.

[LeeMcGough]

Having to carry a 8mm allen key is a small price to pay for the extra rear triangle stiffness, I'd wager. Besides, I have had QRs freeze up on me before (damned road salt!), and wished I had bolt on wheels.

[rockyrider]

I had a chance to ride my truly XC build of the Slayer SXC today. I stuck a DT Swiss EXC150 fork on it to shave another 1.35 pounds off the bike, it's down to 29.25 pounds in this config. The DT Swiss fork only weighs 3.75 pounds, that's less than the 32mm Fox TALAS on my ETSX.

I now have the kit for the heavy duty AM build and the SXC ride build and I can swap the fork, wheels and seatpost over in about 20 minutes. The FSA headset has the split ring so there's not even a lot of fuss in swapping forks.

The DT Swiss 150mm fork is about 15mm shorter A2C than the Marz 55 set for 150mm travel. That helps lower the front end a bit and steepen the head angle. This certainly helps make the bike climb steep hills better.

Again I'm just amazed at how efficiently this bike rides. It doesn't feel like a 6" travel bike. The only place the bike feels big is on really sharp switchbacks. The long wheelbase doesn't mix well on really sharp corners.

The DT Swiss fork is surprisingly stiff, at least as good and likely a bit better than my Fox 32 TALAS set to 140mm.

The carbon lowers on the fork also match the carbon seat stays on the suspension. :D

23598

23575

23576

[mimbresman]

That's badass Rocky! :cool: