Pauls Thumbies

[ironspoke]

Dreaming about building the perfect bike with a quality frame is getting easier and easier with all of the resources on the internet (thanks Al). My specific question is about the Pauls Thumbies. Considering I'm an old fart and that 2 of my 3 bikes actually have top mount shifters this concept intrigues me. Does anyone here run these babies and is it on an actual mountain bike or is the set up on some kind of cross or road bike?

I'm thinking about running these things on a Gunnar Steel Rockhound 29er.

[rockyrider]

The only downside I found using the Thumbies was that the Shimano Bar Cons shifters have a smaller barrel so the cable pull requires a larger swing of the shifter. If you have large hands it's not a problem. They also sit a bit higher on the bars.

Here's comparisons between the classic Shimano thumbshifter and the 9 speed Thumbie.

[ironspoke]

Thanks!

Nice pics. Will those shifters work in index mode with an XT drivetrain? I'm assuming they do otherwise it wouldnt be marketed as a mountain biking item.

Works with Shimano Dura-Ace® SL-BS77 (9 speed) or Ultegra® SL-BS64 (8 speed) bar end shifters is how Speedgoat describes them.


Rock do you currently have a bike with this setup?

[rockyrider]

The 8 or 9 speed Bar Cons shifters work in index mode with the XT 8 or 9 speed stuff no problem.

I'm not running the Thumbies right now I've switched to SRAM X-0 and 9 speed.

PM me if you're interested in buying a set of Thumbies and 8 speed or 9 speed Dura Ace Bar Cons shifters - I have a set of each.

[ironspoke]

When this little project gets off the ground I'll check back in with you. Hopefully you will still have them sitting around.

[Teamfubar]

Hey Thumbies users,

Has anyone tried or thought of using the Sram TT bar end shifters w/X.0? I don't even know if it is possible, but those shifters are ultra sweet carbon units and if they fit on the Pauls mounts, it would be pretty smokin'. The other issue might be they are 10 speed, but you could make a 10 speed MTB with the IRD 11-34 10 speed cog. Not saying you'd want to, but you could. I would love to run thumbies w/ X.0...

[rockyrider]

9 speed chains are flimsy enough in the mud and dirt, even narrower cogs and chains with closer spacing would not be my choice. I'd still be happier with 8 speed and their thicker cogs and chains.

What makes me craziest about 9 speed is needing to upshift through 2 gears at a hop while accelerating. Close ratio boxes are for diesel trucks not legs. I like the ratio spread, but I'd be happy with 5 jumps to get from 11-32T.

[davkatreb]

Can't tell you much about Thumbies, mans; I'm more a drop bar kind of guy.

But I can tell you a thing or two aboot barcons, eh. I have them on both my shifty bikes.

Eight speed and budget Shimano from my 2003 Fuji League on the Crosscheck. Friction up front, index in back. Works dandy. I love the ability to trim my front derailleur.

Seven speed on my road bike (Fuji), Suntour derailleurs with a Shimano 600 road double. Friction, because Shimano no workee with Suntour. I actually like friction shifting on this bike.

So in conclusion, if I ever build another shifty bike with flat bar, put me down for one each, pair of barcons and Thumbies.

[ironspoke]

I concur. Have you noticed any kind of movement afoot where there wont be 8 speed readily available in the future? A quick flip through the pages of the latest Trek catalogue has 9 speed gearing on their high to moderate end bikes. You drop down to the lower enders to find an 8 or even a 7.

I run friction suntour shifters with shimano on my panasonic and I am never, ever caught in the wrong gear.

But this aint road riding. It also aint about being sponsored and being able to rip through parts. When I buy my next bike I want the damn thing to be as bulletproof as my last one (Cannondale Super V 1000 purchased in 1998).

I guess I'm concerened the industry will move toward this 9 speed and even 10 speed mentality when there are plenty of people out there who would be content with 8 speed and the durability associated with it. We (the people) have a lot of say so in this industry but in the end Shimano will do what it wants.

Do you think Shimano or Sram would ever come out and market new top mount shifters? There would appear to be at least some kind of niche market out there for an item such as this.

[Teamfubar]

First off, let me reiterate the fact that I don't want to build a 10 speed mountain bike, but it is coming, whether we like it or not. And it will become standard fare on bikes, whether we like it or not. BUT, we can tell the companies we don't want it by not buying it, though I don't think this will happen. If people were not lured into buying the newest toy, we'd all be riding rigid, 5 speed mountain bikes with friction shifting. Advancements in technology have made the mountain bike is what it is today. Sure, there are problems, such as 9 speed skipping around, but, for 95% of the public, the cheapest of 9 speed systems are lightyears better than the best 7 speed stuff of 15 years ago.

Look at Shimano's response to their dismal release of the XTR 960 stuff. The public loved the cranks, but the rest was despised and Sram was getting toe hold in the market, so they revamped the entire line up. The public voted with their dollar.

So, to answer my first question, before I threw this thread off on a tangent, does anyone know if the Sram TT shifters will work with Pauls Thumbies mounts?

[rockyrider]

If they use the same 7/16" square locating shoulder on the mounting base like the Shimano they'd work without modification. If the body of the shifter is any larger than 7/8" diameter they wouldn't fit without removing some material from the Thumbies.

[robcycle]

... Close ratio boxes are for diesel trucks not legs...
... and racecars and motorcycles! :p

Close ratio gear sets are useful for anything that needs to stay in a narrow rpm band. Kinda like legs ... 0-120rpm isn't that broad a spread, especially considering that comfortable/useful cadence is probably 60-100rpm (just a guess on range). I suppose if you're a masher, a wider spread of gears is nice (I feel this way, and like a 1x7 when I run gears off road), but if you try to stay within a narrow rpm band, I would imagine a close ratio gear system would be useful. That's not to say that 9 is better than 8, or 7 for that matter. Hell, I get by with one gear just fine :p

-Rob.

[rockyrider]

Certainly anyone that has an SS background would find the gear spacing on a 9 speed especially tedious, a 1T or 2T jump is pretty subtle. 3T is starting to be a reasonable jump.

11 - 12 - 14 - 16 - 18 - 21 - 24 - 28 - 32

I'd be happy with these intervals on this gear range

11 - 14 - 18 - 22 - 27 - 32

[robcycle]

I'd be happy with these intervals on this gear range

11 - 14 - 18 - 22 - 27 - 32
... too bad there isn't reasonably priced, durable, and while we're at it, light internally geared mtb hub:rolleyes:

-Rob.

[ironspoke]

... too bad there isn't reasonably priced, durable, and while we're at it, light internally geared mtb hub:rolleyes:

-Rob.

I've seen these on some old towner bikes and in fact my father inlaw recently picked one up at a flea market. Other than it seems to be a pretty cool little gizmo, are there any benefits of an internally geared hub? I know its cleaner looking but a shift is a shift, right?


I'm never going to go the singlespeed route considering the hills that are around me and my age, but for the life of me I dont get why top mount shifters and in fact the ability to go friction and drop into a gear immediately ever went out of style. A lot of us were there in the early 90s when this movement took place and I know there are some merits but it would seem that the choice of a quality top mount shifter should be there.

[rockyrider]

The commuter/comfort bike hubs aren't up to the torque that off road use requires. Supposedly the new SRAM i-Motion 9 hub is able to handle more torque without turning into a bucket of metal shavings, but it's not much lighter than the Rohloff. Haven't seen a price on the SRAM yet.

The Rohloff is pricey but very effective, and about 1 pound heavier than a derailleur drivetrain. There's supposed to be a lighter Rohloff in 2008 but it likely won't be cheaper.

[robcycle]

I've seen these on some old towner bikes and in fact my father inlaw recently picked one up at a flea market. Other than it seems to be a pretty cool little gizmo, are there any benefits of an internally geared hub? I know its cleaner looking but a shift is a shift, right?


I'm never going to go the singlespeed route considering the hills that are around me and my age, but for the life of me I dont get why top mount shifters and in fact the ability to go friction and drop into a gear immediately ever went out of style. A lot of us were there in the early 90s when this movement took place and I know there are some merits but it would seem that the choice of a quality top mount shifter should be there.
OK, there are several points here ...

Benefits of an internal hub (if you want gears), good chainline, no dropped gears or mis-shifts, less noise, you can shift when stopped (a commuter thing), asthetics, and I'm sure other things ...

As for top mounts going the way of the dodo, you can thank the almighty dollar. Sure, there are applications where pod or brifters are benificial, but for the average rider ... yeah, seven speeds and thumb shifters should be adequate. I suppose if you don't have something to make what you made last year obsolete then you don't eat ... or something ...

I could probably be considered a neo-ludite, but I've been called a hippie, as well. I claim no affiliation. I like stuff that works, and stuff that I can work on. So, yeah, I like thumb shifters, internally geared hubs, and single speeds/fixies. So sue me ... ;)

-Rob.

[Cressers]

"If people were not lured into buying the newest toy, we'd all be riding rigid, 5 speed mountain bikes with friction shifting"

If only...

[ironspoke]

Oh I have no problem with technology and I think its amazing what they have come up with over the years in so many different areas of our lives.

Regarding the money factor....this would appear to be a prime example of where a clever marketing campaign and a bulletproof product (top mount shifters) could make some company (SRAM or Shimano) a lot of money.


Robcycle I wasnt aware you can shift an internal hub when standing still. Thats pretty nifty and I can see where a commuter could utilize that feature.

[rockyrider]

not just commuters... It's very handy when you're motoring along uphill and hit something (like a banana slug) that spins the rear wheel and brings you to a stop, or the guy in front muffs a root or rock obstacle and stops in front of you, you can downshift as far as you need while stopped and just get going again.

Rohloff hubs are very cool.

[davkatreb]

I don't like squish, I don't like discs and I don't like aloomeeum,eh, and yet there's something aboot that bike...

[FishMan]

Regarding the money factor....this would appear to be a prime example of where a clever marketing campaign and a bulletproof product (top mount shifters) could make some company (SRAM or Shimano) a lot of money.

Shimano just released the 20th annversary edition of the XT gruppo. Wouldn't it have been cool if they would have included some limited edition 9 speed thumb shifters?!? I mean the low profile rear der. is hot, but with thumb shifters, that would be the ultimate mtb gruppo.

Oh, and I am building up a bike with Thumbies right now. Three coats of tool dip over the grey plastic makes them look and feel a lot more like the originals.

[ironspoke]

Fish that is tremendous! Give us the specifics. What kind of frame, etc? You need to get us some pics when its done.

Yes I cant believe that idea didnt make it out of the Shimano boardroom. I'm sure at least one person had to have mentioned it in some meeting somewhere. Maybe they are waiting for the 25th anniversry?????

Maybe someone will purchase the Suntour name and revive it that way? Wouldnt that be a hoot? I still run a pair of XC Pro pedals (complete with black plastic cages) on my winter beater bike.

I was riding my road bike tonight with its top mount Suntour shifters (in friction mode) coupled with a Shimano drive train and it is so freaking easy to jump into any gear I want without having to cycle through a bunch of bullshit. Oh well. I've done enough bitching about this topic.

With my track record for predicting certain things I could probably call myself a Futurist. But I sure have gotten this one wrong. I would have sworn that by the year 2007, one of the big guys (Shimano, SRAM) would have marketed a set of these babies.

[rockhound]

I don't like squish, I don't like discs and I don't like aloomeeum,eh, and yet there's something aboot that bike...

Yes there is.

If I had the means, I'd have one too. :D

[FishMan]

Fish that is tremendous! Give us the specifics. What kind of frame, etc? You need to get us some pics when its done.

I am building a winter bike. Thumb shifters are easier to operate with bulky gloves. It is ALMOST done, I am having some difficulty modifying the rear brakes and also I managed to break off a thread tap in the threads for the bolt that holds the cable on the front der. (so if anyone has any ideas on how to remedy that, I'm all ears).

I can't claim credit for the tool dip idea. I bought the shifters used and one of them had a crack in the plastic grip. The seller suggested using tool dip to smooth it out. So I superglued it back together and put some tool dip on it... and then just kept going until they were about the size of my XT thumb shifters.

[fudgedit]

Fishman-It sounds like you need a tap extractor. Go to a real hardware store down there in Madtown. They are pretty easy to use and if you own a tap then you should own an extractor. Used to happen several times a year when working on dh skis with metal top skins. Just go slow! Hope you all aren't drowning down there in Dane cty.

[bafc23]

I ran bar-cons on my cyclocross bike for five years and have them saved with some Thumbies in their bag waiting for a build to come along, so I'm singin' the gospel of these widgets. This thread gave me a 'brainfart' as they fondly call them 'round here, so if you'll indulge me...
With a resurgence in popularity of the self built bike and the made to measure bike, we might not be far away from Shimano and others making modern versions of the parts discussed in this thread. The demand is certainly growing in niche areas of the market. People want to build their vision, be it a path racer, a vintage replica or a purpose-built bike, one speed, five speed, twenty speed whatever. They want thumb shifters to work in winter, match a look or allow them to run a particular handlebar. Successful companies like Surly, Soma, IRO, Salsa, etc. have built their reps in part by promoting affordable frame-sets that are designed to be built in a variety of configurations. Witness the Casseroll & Karate Monkey for examples of this, bikes that are marketed specifically as building blocks for a wide range of styles. Combined with the retro nostalgic appeal of 'customizing', folks buying these bikes are starting to take interest in things like bar-con's and simpler gear ratios in the same way they're interested in leather saddles and backsweep handlebars- two retro items that have come on strong in the past couple years. If one of these companies spec'd thumb-shifters on a flat-bar configured complete version of their 'all purpose' frames, we might see a turning of the tides with the component manu's towards updating some classic parts.
Having just tested the Casseroll for DR, I know with it's geometry designed for a more upright cockpit, I'd have preferred the 30-speed 'road' build that it came with as a flat-bar with thumb shifters bike, rather than with the drops and sti shifting provided. We try to test'em as they come, but had I been building it up myself I would have gone with a thumb-shift setup. Spec'ing it that way would too expensive for a company like Salsa to hit their target price point. Personally I think people would pay for the option as an upgrade. Next year's Casseroll will be avail as a complete tripple-double like my tester, or a complete singlespeed. It would be cool to see a complete with thumb shifting if only to push the component companies to address these corners of the marketplace. Give me index or give me death!

[bikertrash]

I miss thumbies also, but I've found SRAM's twist shifters are pretty good. I can drop as many gears as I want and when I get going I can go from low to high as fast as I can twist. Beats pumping a lever 8 or 9 times.
I had hoped there would be some kind of paddle attachment out by now to make them near thumbie, but any way if your waiting for the second coming of thumbies, twisties seem to suffice.