It should be intuitive, but I wasn't...

[dangerousdave]

so Im about 1/2 way through The tipping Point by gladwell. Great book.
Turns out to amongst the many cultural discoveries and common place sociological quirks involving numbers of things and happenings, literally soup to nuts here- epidemics of syphillis, to crime waves, to the revival of buster Brown penny loafers in Manhatten- or "the village", to emotional charged crowds that in these variable situations, one thing is consistent and its the peak at which something remarkable happens.
Gladwell postulates that a "tipping point" occurs at which the phenom either dies out, or goes bananas. The influences on the tipping would seem to be intuitive, but perhaps not as it is related to how the object or process in question- disease, fad, crime wave, etc. affect our processing of physical, mental, emotional input to our senses. How it immeadiately affects our surroundings, and how we react to it is a big part of the key. Getting swept up in a movement, gettin caught up in a case of spreading influenza, a fad, a crime wave, depends more upon external factors....
timming, surroundings, colors, numbers of items, its rather bizarre until you start to understand biological evolutionary human programming.
Seems we are limited in our ability to process important, relevant information in unexpected ways. The human mind has evolved- expanded physically keeping pace with the number and size of individuals we have evolved to surround ourselves with in terms of survival, effective cooperation and individual recognition...that siad, studies were done in the 30's by Ma Bell, found out 7 numbers are the max for ease of remembering phone calls, other studies quoted 12 individual descriptions of sights, sounds, smells etc. before repeats and mistakes appear...]- he called them "channels" [which could mean also 12 ways of describing something- obviously Alute names for snow/precipitation are an exception, but! its a unique circumstance - so it proves the rule, rather than the exception] are normally closest to YOU and would cause much emotional distress or discomfort at their problems, or deaths. 150 is the max amount of cooperative bodies within the human general social structure for best recongnition, best cooperation, best fit into group survival.
Google the Huttites {?}- similar to the Amish, for example, they limit thier cult clans to 150, then break up and reform at larger numbers as a strict rule... and they have been successful at this for many century's...anyway, it has also been shown to be true in military circumstances, where obviously there can be much at stake, that 200 bodies are the absolute max- that is, before there needs to be huge amounts of energy wasted on heirarchy's and structure... so the human mind is essentially preprogrammed to interact best, most rationally, most efficiently with groups of this size-'bout 150.
Back to the "tipping POint" --- I've been pondering the theory, and I wonder if we are reaching the apex, the point of "tipping" with the cost of gasoline. I thought of this jsut yesterday when I heard co-workers complaining about the cost of fueling their diesels, and cars. SO of course I piped up and made it well known that I had fueled up last when gas was below 3$ gallon, 'course its a lie, but its in jest, and I am going to hell, so WTF? :p
My point was made....
Another factor in the"point" is that it also generally finds a catalyst, something that purposefully or not acts in conjunction with the phenom in question...
So, would it be a possibility to become a tipping point catalyst? Could each of us bikers act in conjunction to create a "tipping point" that would sweep the country like a meme? like a jingle, like a advertising trick that gets in your brain and doesn't go away easily? I relish the thought.

musings, DD

[mimbresman]

I read the book a couple years back and think of it time to time. On one my visits to my mom's in the USA, (probably 2006), I remember telling her that I hope gasoline goes to $4.00/gallon because I felt that was the magic number where people would start reevaluating their driving habits, especially getting rid of the big SUVs and driving a more sensible car. It might need to go up higher than that, and I see (via the Internet) that more and more, that "tipping point" might be approaching ...but on the other hand, knowing how Americans are with their cars, it might be logarithmic... As we approach that asymptote of the tipping point of not driving big gas guzzlers, it might never be reached, therefore America's economy might take another dive due to inflation and lack of spending because everyone's money in going into the gas tank of their favorite V-8 powered car-truck.

Anyway, I just read this (http://tucorides.blogspot.com/2006/06/easter-island-why-civilizations-fail.html) interesting blog entry using Easter Island as an example of human failure. Interesting observation and opinion.

[dangerousdave]

YO

That version of Easter Is. is a possibilty, its one conclusion amongst a lot of variables- diseases, weather, ritual... of course stupidity and waste were just as prevalent then as now, just a bit more of it now to coincide with the population..:rolleyes:

[davkatreb]

You guys think way too much.

[dangerousdave]

You guys think way too much.

Davo- You could always jump in and give one of us a break, add some cranky wisdom, you know all the usual subjects...

[peatbog]

I know many people who have a hard time just putting food on the table and clothes on their and their family's backs. I hope gas goes back to $1.00 a gallon so their life is easier. Just because I ride a bicycle doesn't mean that bicycles are the answer to everyone's problem.
Some people aren't re-evaluating their driving habits because some--many--people don't drive any more they have to to begin with. Now, because they have to spend several dollars more per gallon for gas, they are re-evaluating which one of their kids doesn't get the new clothes they need, or maybe they have to get rid of the telephone because they can't afford it, or maybe their house is never quite warm in the winter because they must save on the fuel bill.
Exactly how does high fuel prices help these people? Doesn't it matter that high fuel prices will make their life more difficult?
And none of those people I know have a V-8 powered vehicle. One of them, I just gave a car battery to because he couldn't afford one, and he couldn't get to work because he had no other way, and maybe if his health allowed it he would ride a bicycle, but not everyone is blessed with good health. And I didn’t mention that to say that I am some wonderful person, but to remind everyone that a whole lot of people are hurt when fuel prices rise, and no high minded crap about a greener earth matters to many people because they are busy trying to figure out just how they are going to pay for groceries this week because fuel prices went up, and the 10 dollars extra they spent on gas last week to get to work would have come in real handy to buy food. I am not wishing high fuel prices on anyone.

[davkatreb]

I know many people who have a hard time just putting food on the table and clothes on their and their family's backs. I hope gas goes back to $1.00 a gallon so their life is easier. Just because I ride a bicycle doesn't mean that bicycles are the answer to everyone's problem.
Some people aren't re-evaluating their driving habits because some--many--people don't drive any more they have to to begin with. Now, because they have to spend several dollars more per gallon for gas, they are re-evaluating which one of their kids doesn't get the new clothes they need, or maybe they have to get rid of the telephone because they can't afford it, or maybe their house is never quite warm in the winter because they must save on the fuel bill.
Exactly how does high fuel prices help these people? Doesn't it matter that high fuel prices will make their life more difficult?
And none of those people I know have a V-8 powered vehicle. One of them, I just gave a car battery to because he couldn't afford one, and he couldn't get to work because he had no other way, and maybe if his health allowed it he would ride a bicycle, but not everyone is blessed with good health. And I didn’t mention that to say that I am some wonderful person, but to remind everyone that a whole lot of people are hurt when fuel prices rise, and no high minded crap about a greener earth matters to many people because they are busy trying to figure out just how they are going to pay for groceries this week because fuel prices went up, and the 10 dollars extra they spent on gas last week to get to work would have come in real handy to buy food. I am not wishing high fuel prices on anyone.
You have spoken to many issues that I see all around me in everyday life. I wish I would have said it, and I wish I could have said it half as well. Seriously.

[mimbresman]

Then there is the Edward Abbey attitude...just drive the biggest POS out there, use up all the oil (someday), then deal with it.
Hayduke measure miles by the six pack. :rolleyes:

[RandomDood]

Then there is the Edward Abbey attitude...just drive the biggest POS out there, use up all the oil (someday), then deal with it.
Hayduke measure miles by the six pack. :rolleyes:

If you're going to drive drunk, drive fast. That way you are on the road for less time. :D

I remember when Paul Harvey measured distances driven by six packs. But I'm so old, I remember drive up bars. Just like Mickey Dees, but they'd serve you a mixed drink.

Damn! I'm old! :D

[mimbresman]

If you're going to drive drunk, drive fast. That way you are on the road for less time. :D

I remember when Paul Harvey measured distances driven by six packs. But I'm so old, I remember drive up bars. Just like Mickey Dees, but they'd serve you a mixed drink.

Damn! I'm old! :D

Back in the early 80's when I was doing my student teaching, I'd teach school during the day, then go work at a drive-up liquor window at night. Had my regulars. I'd see their cars, I'd get their stuff ready.

[peatbog]

I'm old (47) yet do not remember drive up bars. Dang, my mind must be going on me...what were we talking about...

by the way, thanks, davkatreb.

[RandomDood]

I'm old (47)


Thanks for the laugh. :D

[dangerousdave]

I'm old (47) yet do not remember drive up bars. Dang, my mind must be going on me...what were we talking about...

by the way, thanks, davkatreb.

YOur not old, your mature! Big diff. esp. when we're the same age;)

The thing about the oil $ is continuing record quarterly profits in the face of an economic crisis we haven't seen the likes of since the 30's...
It may not be pretty in the aspects you put forth, but changes that are forced upon a society, changing attitudes of awareness and the actions that then occur due to these imposed hardships are never easy answers to present....or take.
I think alot of people I work with could bike, they simply choose to spend more on fuel. Its too bad, but what can we do?
I throw it [I haven't spend 40$ since the new year on gas] up every chance I get!!!!

[peatbog]

Mature? Us? I've seen our arguements.

[rockhound]

Gas at $4.00/gallon would do more damage than good.

I started carpooling months ago, and I don't see anyone else doing it.

Part of me wants to move in and be able to ride my bike to work, to the store, etc. That would be heaven.

The other part of me wants to build a multi-level earth-home on a south slope with passive heating and lighting, solar power, and maybe even windpower...make enough electricity to not only get off the grid, but to power my electric car (someday). The problem is, if gas goes any higher, I'm going to be stuck right where I am now...in my starter house, as will many, many others.

[mscotch]

Then there is the Edward Abbey attitude...just drive the biggest POS out there, use up all the oil (someday), then deal with it.
Hayduke measure miles by the six pack. :rolleyes:

I think I read where he'd toss the cans/bottles out the window, too and not think much of it.
I like his books and his stories, but it's interesting how some things he did or thought of would be considered taboo now.

[mscotch]

I know many people who have a hard time just putting food on the table and clothes on their and their family's backs. I hope gas goes back to $1.00 a gallon so their life is easier. Just because I ride a bicycle doesn't mean that bicycles are the answer to everyone's problem.
Some people aren't re-evaluating their driving habits because some--many--people don't drive any more they have to to begin with. Now, because they have to spend several dollars more per gallon for gas, they are re-evaluating which one of their kids doesn't get the new clothes they need, or maybe they have to get rid of the telephone because they can't afford it, or maybe their house is never quite warm in the winter because they must save on the fuel bill.
Exactly how does high fuel prices help these people? Doesn't it matter that high fuel prices will make their life more difficult?
And none of those people I know have a V-8 powered vehicle. One of them, I just gave a car battery to because he couldn't afford one, and he couldn't get to work because he had no other way, and maybe if his health allowed it he would ride a bicycle, but not everyone is blessed with good health. And I didn’t mention that to say that I am some wonderful person, but to remind everyone that a whole lot of people are hurt when fuel prices rise, and no high minded crap about a greener earth matters to many people because they are busy trying to figure out just how they are going to pay for groceries this week because fuel prices went up, and the 10 dollars extra they spent on gas last week to get to work would have come in real handy to buy food. I am not wishing high fuel prices on anyone.

I'll echo the rest, good stuff.
Maybe some of the most scary stuff is yet to come. With higher gas/diesel comes higher costs for food, the clothes you mentioned and so on.:(
My cousin, who owns his own semi, spends 9 to 10 THOUSAND dollars on month of fuel. Scary.

[dangerousdave]

Mature? Us? I've seen our arguements.

Good point, but
nya nya nya nyaaaaa nyaaaaa anyway!:D

[tryandgetme]

I know you are but what am I?

[mimbresman]

I think I read where he'd toss the cans/bottles out the window, too and not think much of it.
I like his books and his stories, but it's interesting how some things he did or thought of would be considered taboo now.

Heyduke did that because he felt the pavement ruined that section of the earth anyway, what harm is a little litter going to do?

I saw Abbey speak once. Got his autograph on one my books. I'm glad I got to see him. His writing changed (or ruined) me forever.

At Christmas, I visited a friend in New Mexico who lived in a dome. I immediately thought about Bonnie Abbzug. She lived in a dome right? "Dome sweet dome"

[peatbog]

Good point, but
nya nya nya nyaaaaa nyaaaaa anyway!:D

Oh yeah!?

1 extra

[Zinger]

Back to our regularly scheduled discussion...

so Im about 1/2 way through The tipping Point by gladwell. Great book.

Yeah, it's one of my favorites. It's spooky, almost a way to predict the future.

Gladwell talks a lot about context -- social or political or maybe ecconomic -- as one of the three vital elements for these changes to come about, but doesn't give a lot on this apart from a few examples. Another book, almost a companion volume, "The Change Function" talks a lot about how to determine when the context is ripe for tipping. OK, it's more of a tech venture capital book, but it you can see how that ties in. In a nutshell, that book shows how when the "Total Perceived Pain of Adoption" becomes less than the pain of sticking with the old solution, change will naturally occur. It may be waiting for a spark though, and that's what "The Tipping Point" is more about.

Useful books both.