GF Paragon

[dirtworshipper]

Have I ridden enough bikes to write a review with a global perspective? NO. Have I ridden two bikes so that I can compare the two? YES.

Comparison: 2006 Stumpjumper FSR Comp vs. 2008 GF Paragon.

What I expected...



1)Full suss to hardtail: Downhills will be miserable, my butt will be sore. Should be fun to mash out of the saddle.

2)26" to 29": I'll be a ton faster on the straightaways, but the handling may feel sluggish.




What really happend...

1) Speed on the flats:
HUGE advantage to the Paragon. On gravel roads, the big wheels combined w/ efficiency of a hardtail FLIES. It's almost as fast as my cyclocross bike, which cooks on gravel but is miserably uncomfortable. I feel like I could comfortably ride the paragon all day at speeds that would kill my legs on the stumpjumper. Similar effect on smooth singletrack.

2) Handling:
Even though I came into my new relationship with the gary fisher looking for handling flaws, I didn't notice any downside here. How long did it take to "get used to" the 29" wheel size? ZERO. Did it steer slow? absolutely not. Is it the G2 geometry that fixed the problems? how the hell would I know? It feels like I'm riding a bike, a bike that goes fast and feels good.

3) Climbing:
Mixed bag here. On the smoother climbs, or climbs with only one or two tough ledge moves, the Paragon felt great. Climb in middle ring, stand and mash, keep my speed up, and I'm at the top before I know it. However, some climbs are just too long or too rocky to do that. I've trained myself to shift to the granny, spin the legs fast, and crawl my way to the top on my Stumpjumper. It's an efficient and consistent method, but unfortunately, it doesn't translate well to the hardtail. It's just too hard to sit and spin when I'm being jarred all over the place. So what's the verdict? If I've got strength to spare, I can stand and mash, and love the Paragon. If I'm worn down, or the climb is really tough, I wish I had the stumpjumper so I could take my time and just make it to the top.

4) Descending:
spoiler allert: I'm not that much worse descending on the hardtail! The paragon rides down everything that the stumpjumper rode down. It rides down just as fast. The 80mm fork requires a little more work maneuver down the rocks, but I am still pretty confident that I'll make it. The downside here is in the energy used. On the stumpjumper (full suss), downhills were a time to recovery some strength. On the Paragon (hardtail), the downhills take almost as much energy as the climbs. On a casual ride that's fine, but racing on a rocky course last month I felt like the lack of recovery time cost me some strength on the flats & climbs.




SYNOPSIS:
If you're on a smooth course or are in great shape, the Paragon is a sweet bike. If you're on a tough trail, or don't have the legs to fly up the hills, you might be better off on a mid-travel full suspension bike like the stumpjumper. Interestingly, this matches the way a lot of people buy bikes. First bike is an entry level hardtail. You get some skills, ride tougher trails, but still don't have crazy aerobic fitness. Get a nice full susser, have a great time. Couple more years, you get the need for speed, buy a hardtail race bike, and fly around the trails. What's the suprise? Nothing. Full suspension bike feels better when there are a lot of rocks. Darn. I always imagined my first bike review would be more intriguing.

[ironspoke]

DW,

It was plenty intriguing!

Just curious if you ever had any other experience riding a Genesis geometry bike. You touched on it briefly. Is this GF guy on to something? ;)

I was always curious about this and whether or not it is just a marketing thing. Never ridden a GF.

It would be interesting to see you try that new Stumpjumper 29r next to the Paragon.

Also, your synopsis about the arc of most riders I think is spot on. Makes sense to me.

[mscotch]

Have I ridden enough bikes to write a review with a global perspective? NO. Have I ridden two bikes so that I can compare the two? YES.

Comparison: 2006 Stumpjumper FSR Comp vs. 2008 GF Paragon.

What I expected...



1)Full suss to hardtail: Downhills will be miserable, my butt will be sore. Should be fun to mash out of the saddle.

2)26" to 29": I'll be a ton faster on the straightaways, but the handling may feel sluggish.




What really happend...

1) Speed on the flats:
HUGE advantage to the Paragon. On gravel roads, the big wheels combined w/ efficiency of a hardtail FLIES. It's almost as fast as my cyclocross bike, which cooks on gravel but is miserably uncomfortable. I feel like I could comfortably ride the paragon all day at speeds that would kill my legs on the stumpjumper. Similar effect on smooth singletrack.

2) Handling:
Even though I came into my new relationship with the gary fisher looking for handling flaws, I didn't notice any downside here. How long did it take to "get used to" the 29" wheel size? ZERO. Did it steer slow? absolutely not. Is it the G2 geometry that fixed the problems? how the hell would I know? It feels like I'm riding a bike, a bike that goes fast and feels good.

3) Climbing:
Mixed bag here. On the smoother climbs, or climbs with only one or two tough ledge moves, the Paragon felt great. Climb in middle ring, stand and mash, keep my speed up, and I'm at the top before I know it. However, some climbs are just too long or too rocky to do that. I've trained myself to shift to the granny, spin the legs fast, and crawl my way to the top on my Stumpjumper. It's an efficient and consistent method, but unfortunately, it doesn't translate well to the hardtail. It's just too hard to sit and spin when I'm being jarred all over the place. So what's the verdict? If I've got strength to spare, I can stand and mash, and love the Paragon. If I'm worn down, or the climb is really tough, I wish I had the stumpjumper so I could take my time and just make it to the top.

4) Descending:
spoiler allert: I'm not that much worse descending on the hardtail! The paragon rides down everything that the stumpjumper rode down. It rides down just as fast. The 80mm fork requires a little more work maneuver down the rocks, but I am still pretty confident that I'll make it. The downside here is in the energy used. On the stumpjumper (full suss), downhills were a time to recovery some strength. On the Paragon (hardtail), the downhills take almost as much energy as the climbs. On a casual ride that's fine, but racing on a rocky course last month I felt like the lack of recovery time cost me some strength on the flats & climbs.




SYNOPSIS:
If you're on a smooth course or are in great shape, the Paragon is a sweet bike. If you're on a tough trail, or don't have the legs to fly up the hills, you might be better off on a mid-travel full suspension bike like the stumpjumper. Interestingly, this matches the way a lot of people buy bikes. First bike is an entry level hardtail. You get some skills, ride tougher trails, but still don't have crazy aerobic fitness. Get a nice full susser, have a great time. Couple more years, you get the need for speed, buy a hardtail race bike, and fly around the trails. What's the suprise? Nothing. Full suspension bike feels better when there are a lot of rocks. Darn. I always imagined my first bike review would be more intriguing.

nice review.
I have a 29er x-cal, Genesis and a 26 hifi deluxe, G2 geometry... somewhat similar experiences for me, although, I sit more upright on the hifi so my weight is further back with my "normal" position so taking jumps and drops are much better with the hifi.
as for the uphill, what was your air pressure on the paragon and what's your weight?

[John]

Dirtworshipper,

Wow, how weird is it that this is the exact move I made from one bike to another? My FSR hasn't left the garage wall since I got my Paragon.

Climbing is insane due to the unlimited traction of the 29er tires. I find myself standing up to climb where I never dared before. I find that my heartrate is lower standing in the middle chainring than spinning in the granny at the same speed.

Descending is kinda scary because the big wheels simply level everything and chatter across stuff that used to catch the smaller wheels on my FSR and I wind up going downhill WAY faster now.

The G2 handling is nice and sharp. I didn't give up anything in that department. Plus the big wheels don't wash out in the corners anywhere near as much as my FSR did.

BTW, the Fox fork on your bike can be kicked up to 100mm of travel by removing the spacer at the bottom of the one leg. My shop did this free of charge before I left the shop - one of the reasons I love Dirty Harrys.

[dirtworshipper]

nice review.
I have a 29er x-cal, Genesis and a 26 hifi deluxe, G2 geometry... somewhat similar experiences for me, although, I sit more upright on the hifi so my weight is further back with my "normal" position so taking jumps and drops are much better with the hifi.
as for the uphill, what was your air pressure on the paragon and what's your weight?

I was surprised how well the Paragon wheelies & takes drops-- some racy type bikes (and especially 29ers) that I rode were pretty tough to lift the front end on. But with only about a day of practice, the bike moves underneath me as well as the stumpjumper.

As far as pressures, I've been running about 30-35psi in the tires, and the manual's recommended 65 psi in the fork. My riding weight is probably 155 w/ gear & water, and I've never had much trouble with pinch flats. I haven't played around w/ the fork pressure much. I have yet to use its full travel, but since I'm standing much more often while on on the paragon, I'm a bit wary of softening up the fork very much for fear of bobbing during climbs. Maybe I'll dedicate a ride next week to fiddling with shock pressures.

John, I agree about the lower heart rate while standing-- I felt like I was going faster while using less energy on the moderate climbs. It's the really steep ones where I just don't have the strength to muscle up them in the middle ring that I'm going to have to work on. I'm trying to develop a better "stand and spin" kind of technique where I can weight the front end hard while spinning a low gear standing up to allow the back end to crawl up over ledges. I cleaned a couple of climbs w/ AM Radio Tuesday using this type of technique that I'd ridden on the FSR.

Ironspoke, I've never ridden another Fisher bike, G2 or no. In fact, I didn't do a whole lot of test riding at all before I bought the paragon. It's tough to find shops around here who have a variety of hardtails in this price range in stock. So I really can't say whether the G2 geometry is an improvement over standard 29er geometry, but it certainly is an improvement over the way I EXPECTED a 29er to handle. A lot of that could just be the tendency to over-hyped differences between bikes. When you read reviews in magazines or online, it seems like the authors really want to point out just how different the test bike feels from all the others they've ridden. I was kind of expecting a 29er to ride like a tank (albeit a very fast one), and when it rode like a bike instead, I was pleasantly surprised.


By the way, I just got the fork for my stumpjumper back in the mail from PUSH. That means next week I can get the stumpjumper up and running and ride both bikes the same day, which I'm super excited about! Maybe I'll post a review of the PUSH upgrade sometime...

[Ripp]

DW I'm curious to know if you can clean the hill at clinton that we sessioned while Vlad (I think) fixed his flat tires, on the Paragon. If memory serves me (sketchy at best) you did it on the Stumpy, and Nogs also did on his 29er hardtail.

[dirtworshipper]

haven't tried it. I rarely ride that section of trail since it's flat tire city to get there.