Angry Equestrian Encounters...

[derrick92130]

Is it just me or has anyone else been encountering increasing numbers of horseback riders who genuinely hate mtbikers so much that they can't even reply to greetings on the trails?

I know there are several local political pushes by several stables to attempt to get stronger positions of authority on local trail use, but I am shocked at how truly angry they seem to be getting. Doesn't seem like much fun for them. "Hey, I think I'll go ride my horse and get upset with mtbikers today...". I can't imagine living my life that way.

Just curious.

[kennbenny667]

Here in Chicago we seem to be gaining some ground. IMBA's rules of the trail have spread. More bikers are giving the equestrians respect, and are getting it in return. They tend to stay of off most of our singletrack anyways, so I always stop and smile, make a little small talk until they pass and continue on my way.

[Fuzzy Boots]

Haven't seen many horseback riders at all lately. Perhpas it's the cold.

But I've seen plenty of bikers who rdie right by without saying hello, and don't even respond to a greeting. I wonder if that's what they do when they see a horseback rider?
:confused:

[derrick92130]

Maybe I am the anomoly on my local trails. I always stop, well in advance of the horseback riders, always greet them, etc. I have always felt that part of my responsibility as a rider on high-traffic, multi-use trails was to be an ambassador for our efforts.

It just seemed like there was a recent change and was wondering if anyone else was experiencing. Probably just everyone feeling the pinch of all of the new construction and further reduction of our open spaces.

[hairygrump]

Maybe they're just afraid that if they divert their attention for even a second they'll lose control of the animal and get thrown or knocked off or something.

I know that's what I'd be thinking about all the time. My bike has soul, but it doesn't have a mind of its own and I'm very comfortable with that.

[EBasil]

Derrick,
I don't think you're an anomaly on San Diego trails, and I have a pretty good suspicion of where you're talking about :cool: Everyone I know acts like you do when riding, although I certainly do hear about folks that don't know what to do and just ride by. Of course, a cranky bastard on the back of a snorting beast doesn't make some people more likely to do what they should, ie smile and say hello, and they just avert their eyes and try to ride by as if they were on a New York sidewalk and trying to avoid being knifed by passersby.

Our policy is to Kill Them With Kindness: keep doing what you're doing, be friendly, smile, compliment the weather AND their horse. If they gripe at you, thank them for their opinion and tell them you're glad they're on the trail and that you'll support their continued access. One thing to remember, they have the attitudes, but in San Diego and many other places you have the numbers. Offer the olive branch and your hand in friendship, and the ones that can't get along will have to learn to stay home.

[Divscotty]

Our local trails have regluar work sessions. Horse riders and bike riders work side by side. That seems to assist in the friendly nature of other encounters too. Invite them on your next trail work party or show up at theirs.

Divscotty

[EBasil]

TRAIL MAINTENANCE DAY, Los Penasquitos Canyon Preserve.
January 24, 2004

We will be performing tread repair and possibly some brush trimming on the section of Cobblestone Trail known to many as "Upper Cobbles", under the supervision of Ranger Rick Thompson. This event will be advertised to the equestrian and cycling community, and has been designated by the San Diego Mountain Biking Association as an official SDMBA Trail Maintenance Day, suggesting they'll probably give things away like 2004 GM Hummer II's with the lift kit sponsored by Off Road Warehouse, chrome plated chainsaws and frozen free range veal steaks.

Come out and show the Rangers how the cycling community will spend time to repair one of the most popular trails in the Del Mar Mesa network, not to mention one that's at the top of our list to pursue for official designation as Multiuse.

For more information, come to either SDMBA's website or the MTC Yahoo Pages.

Erik Basil
Multiuse Trails Coalition

[derrick92130]

Eric,

Thanks for the update. I'll definitely sign up for the trails maintenance. I have a couple of questions, so I'll PM or email you off-line. Sounds like a good way to help with the relationship between the various groups.

[JoeRider]

The local trail network closest to me has MTB trails on the north side of the road and Horse Trails to the south. We share parking lots and everyone seems to get along really well. However, I remember riding trails in Colorado Springs area about 6 years ago while spending the summer doing an internship. I always dismounted and let them get on their way. Always ask how they were enjoying there ride or just simply greeted them. I recieved alot of, "well, it was just fine till a few minutes ago or they would just ignore me and ride by." Go figure :confused:

[Grumpy]

I was riding at the Fair Hill Natural Resource Center in MD. in August.
I came up on 5 horses so i slowed to their speed and announced my presence.
I slowly began to pass them, it was a section of double-track.
As i was passing the lead rider she started bitching at me about how i need to announce myself. One of the other horse riders started to yell at her in turn saying that i did and she needs to clean all the damn wax out of her ears. That was pretty darn funny.

[EBasil]

On the flip side, I rode a horse (well, big mule) in our local riding area this last Saturday with members of the Ramona Trails Associaton, whcih is a multiuse group primarily comprised of equestrians. We took some trails that are exclusive to horses, and some that we were certain would give us an opportunity to see and interact with cyclists and pedestrians.

When I'm on a bike, I tend to say hello to everyone, especially those on horseback, for many reasons. It was interesting though, to see how it worked from on top of a "horse" (not many could tell the difference between the mules in our group and horses). We encountered a number of cylists that called out hello's, moved to the side of the fire road we were on and chatted with us as we passed one another. These folks didn't stop and dismount (and I am very, very okay with that), and it was no trouble. One group we encountered on singletrack pulled their bikes aside, just like the equestrians would like.

Some riders, which I noted to be those on cheaper, department store bikes for the most part, would ride by silently if we didnt' say anything, and clearly thought the quiet treatment was the most polite, or were intimidated from prior encounters, etc... The equestrians couldn't tell the "difference", although noted some of these people were without helmets.

Unfortunately, one idiot was one of those guys that could ride by you with two feet to spare, but never look at you. You know, the one's I tend to swerve at on my bike to get a reaction. He rode by us, oncoming, quickly and without even a peep or eye contact, even though we called out to him. THIS is disconcerting to the horses, although we had no trouble because of it. However, it was stupid and offensive and exactly what my fellow riders remembered after the ride.

Another thing I noticed is that equestrian users' perception of speed is different than that of people that ride bikes. When riders would approach us on the fire roads at 10mph or so, which is a relaxed pace on the flat dirt road, one of our riders would become alarmed and ask them to slow down as if they were doing something wrong. To me, they were already slow, and yet it seemed very different to the equestrian that moves slowly 90% of the time and really work and move their bodies when galloping or even in a fast trot.

[tryandgetme]

hrm...very interesting to see an equestrian's point of view from a cyclist's point of view....what most interested me about your post was the perception of speed...

this could be where a lot of problems of scared horse riders come from...its not fast to us, but its fast to them, and so we need to be especially conscious of this

[Francis]

Definitely interesting to hear an opinion based from the other side (especially one that also knows our side).

Seems to me that education is the key, which is probably fairly obvious. We seem to have a similar situation locally regarding riding in the mud. People on the list get enraged when they see that someone's been riding a local trail when it's wet. I think we have our blinders on (blatant horse reference). We assume that since we're "in the know", that everyone else is too. I think much of the conflict doesn't come from the "core" group of mountain bikers. I think most of the conflict (or mud riding) comes from Joe Mountain Biker - the average person who has a mountain bike, but isn't "infected" with the cycling disease. Those people go out and ride at leisure, but they aren't the people who constantly dream about their bike, or come to maintenance days, or try to improve the access situations, or tell people to wear helmets, etc. I think the biggest key is to try to (slowly) bring those people into the loop. If we can get our lower 5% to stop acting like a-holes, our image will improve greatly.

[RandomAssSOB]

Most of the best trails I ride on were actually made by horse folk and discovered by bikers. Unfortunately most bikers (myself included) do not participate in their maintenance the way equestrians do.

I think the biggest thing that comes to mind from EBasil's post is the fact that everyone remembers the one fool who acted badly and not the 99 others who did not. There is not much we can do to combat that trick of perception except to be part of the 99 and not the one.

I was out with my 8 year old son one day and a horse rider was actually shocked we pulled off and waited for him to pass. Needless to say he was very appreciative. Hopefully this helped change his overgeneralized perception that all bikers are bad.

I am somewhat surprised that more bikers do not get out of the way of horses. Them suckers is BIG! I sure as hell don't want one freaking out in MY direction!

Anyway, one thing does enrage me about the trail use debate, and that is the assertion that bikes are more destructive than horses. Taking trails away from cyclists based on that argument is pure horse s**t. Anyone who has discovered a pile of the aforementioned stuff on the trail knows exactly what I mean. Not to mention the 6 inch deep postholes in the trail after a good rain.

[Mr. Relaxo]

We have a trail a few miles from my house that I don't even attempt to go on anymore for fear of getting stomped. The trail has separate horse and bike paths, with the horse riders getting about 60% of the trails. The trails are clearly marked as "horse only" and "bike only". I don't know one rider who's ever ventured onto a horse path as the local and not so local cowboys camp there all week, we don't be needin' no trouble or trips to the ER. The problem is EVERY bike trail up there is chopped up with hoof prints. The cowboys don't even pretend to have made a mistake and ventured onto the wrong path they usually just sneer and chortle on about how we shouldn't be on even the designated bike paths. The "authorities" won't enforce the trails because the cowboys pay for camping spots for weeks at a time and bikers are considered to be "daytrippers". Thank God for the North Country trail that's actually about 10 miles closer for me.

[pghjon]

f' the horses, all they do is drop shit on the trails and wreck them with their damn hoofs. get off the damn animal and get on some metal, dumbasses.

yeah yeah yeah I yield to horses, but I can still say f' em!

[dave66]

grew up in the country, with a horse crazed family and started riding when i was 3 - was sick of it by 10!
i may be wrong but the horse thing isn't as big a deal in canada. i live on the outskirts of ottawa so i bump inot the odd horse on the roads [dirt back roads] and on a rail trail , but never on single track. not that they are overly friendly, but not rude really either. I had one run in last fall on a dirt road [not a fire road but a municipally maintained road] where we were going in the same direction, but opposite sides of the road. Her horse spooked as I passed and she kinda gummed me, but [this is old horse person talking now] if your horse spooks that easily, what the
H_E -double hockey sticks are you doing on the road in the first place! There is courtesy then theire is just bending over backwards just so you don't offend.

[hophead]

Actually, where I do most of my riding (Schaeffer farm in Germantown, MD) we have quite a few equstrians that use the trails. I have never had a problem with them. As a matter of fact, they all seem pretty friendly toward mtn bikers. This may be because the trail complex was built by Mtn bikers and would probably not exist if it were not for us. Also, I always make sure that I stop and wait for the horse & rider to pass before continuing on. Most mtn bikers that I have seen on the trails do the same.

Sounds like maybe the equestrians on your trails may have encountered some inconsiderate bikers in the past. I agree that that is no reason to condemn all bikers. If they choose to ride around pissed off, so be it. I ride my bike to relieve stress, not produce it.