Flack

[stumpy]

Stealing the idea from Catzilla, I have started a lot of women's only activities around here. We have rides, clinics, repair clinics, etc for women only and they are wildly popular. Also, I am very active in my local bike club SORBA and they encourage me to use that outlet (as well as other outlets) to advertise the women's only activities. Well, the other day I received an email from a guy who said he doesn't think any one group should be exlcuded. I wasnt' sure if he was serious or not but I wrote him back and said if he wanted to have men's only activities that he should plan them and have fun. He wrote me back and accused me of having issues with males (I happened to be married to a male:) ), he hates to see the club turn into an exclusionary club, etc. Also, I will say this only guy who has voiced these opinions too. I am posting this because I was wondering what you all thought about the validity of his statements.

The main reason I followed Catzilla's lead and started women only activities around here, was so women could meet other women of similar riding abilities and have new riding buddies. Women get tired of being left behind by the guys but they didn't really have anywhere to go meet other women riders. I would hate to open these activities to men because I know I wouldn't get as many women to participate. Also, when advanced rides are advertised, isn't this excluding beginners?

I am thinking of writing an article for our club's newletter about why I have women's only activities....or should I just ignore this issue. THanks for letting me vent and thanks in advanced for your opinions and comments.

[catzilla]

I've thought about that issue as well. While I haven't had any direct comments looking to stop the women's rides, a fella here and there have said, "Why do you have all of these Women's events and why are they always getting stuff?".

My answer is "because I put them together and use MY money to buy the crap". That pretty much settles their concerns immediately.

My thought is that part of expanding the mountain bike community is offering new experiences to riders. Some of these experiences can include singlespeed rides, heading out to a velodrome, night rides, kid's clinics, expert "your slow ass is getting left behind if you can't keep up" rides, or beginner "NOBODY's getting left behind no matter what" rides.

The truth is that some of these experiences are exclusionary, and some aren't. In the end, as long as the mountain bike community as a whole is benefitting, who cares?

Oh, yeah, Mr. Whataboutme cares. I think your response is appropriate. If people aren't satisfied with events, they need to CREATE their own instead of STIFLING the ones already in existance.

I know all too personally that it's difficult to hear and deal with those kinds of reactions. When you try to make a change in the community, you will ALWAYS hear flack. You hear flack because you put on events and you hear flack because you don't. The truth is that one person's negative comments can ring in your ears louder than several peoples' positive comments. When you go from trying to make a change, to actually making changes, those comments only get louder. Sometimes, I think that you've got to tune out all of those voices...and just look at the faces around you. If those faces are smiling, you're on the right track.

Personally, I don't think you need to "explain yourself" in the newsletter. I mean, highlight the hell out of the women's rides, but don't waste the article space justifying the need to have one. Instead, let folks know how successful it has been, how many smiles it has created, and how many riders have been able to find their own love of the sport through it. It's a good chance to open the floor and ask others for more "niche" ride ideas - like a testeroney ride, an "over the hill" ride, etc. See, the cool thing about niches is, everybody is a part of one, just not the same one.

Oh - and you didn't steal the idea from me, you helped spread it.

[grislybikegeek]

A guys point of view. I saw the thread on new posts and wanted to show my support.
Stumpy, please don't let one or even a whole damn army of narrow minded guys steer you away from holding YOUR rides. Girl only rides are a great thing! I love riding with my wife, but she always feels like an anchor, even though I always tell her otherwise. The first time she came back from a ladies only ride her confidence was way higher. She relized she wasn't the slowest person on a bike and she had good bike handleing skills. The experience made her want to ride more. Please keep doing the womens rides.

[stumpy]

Thanks to all for your words of wisdom.

Cat, how in the do you know so much and how are you so insightful? You always have great ways to put things into words. You are right about " You hear flack because you put on events and you hear flack because you don't." It is like that no matter what you do. I have gotten to the point of telling people that if they don't like the way something is done then they should do it themselves. This is actually how I became so involved in my club. I didn't like a couple of things and saw how it could be done better, did it and somehow I ended up on the staff. Not sure exaclty how it happened but I like doing it. Anyway, when I suggest to complainers that they can organize things they don't like, they usually go away. I do take suggestions from people to make things better though; it's just the complainers like the guy in my original post that get to me.

i also like how you talked about focusing on the postives instead of defending my reason for the rides. I plan to write some sort of women's article for every newsletter because we need more women's coverage so I will write about how great the rides are and the repair clinic is, etc and make all the women want to join participate.


grislybikegeek, Thanks for your comments about the womens' rides. That is exaclty what I needed to hear. I hope our women's rides produce more confidence in women like it did for your wife. As Cat said, you hear tons of good things but the one negative thing really stands out.

[wooglin]

Ignore him completely. He'll hate that.

[jhl99]

Mountain biking is not the only sport that has women's only events... skiing and hiking are other sports that promote women's only events, I'm sure there are others. Obviously, same sex outings are important to females, and probably bring more participants to there respective sports.

The irony of the women's only events are that:
1) Have you ever heard of a 'mens only' event?
and
2) If women's only is OK, than mens only should be OK, but there is always great amounts of flack about country clubs that don't admit women.

I personally don't care if there are women's events or not (I'm male), what burns me are hypocrites, male, female or otherwise.

[Cyclenaut]

Yes I've heard of a men's only thing...it's called Augusta National. And look at the amount of crap that Martha Burke got for trying to get women admitted.

Stand firm, Stumpy. What you are doing is very worthwhile and the whinings of the lame-ass wanker shouldn't make you second guess anything you've done. You are empowering women to want to ride.

There's no need for a "men only" mtb clinic because the sport is dominated by males. I'm sure that there's much more of an intimidation factor for a woman to show up at a co-ed clinic since so often women are still looked at as the weaker sex.

I once again refer to my "most ignorant customer" experience as a shop mechanic. I was ripping into a hub on the workbench, hands completely covered in grease when this guy comes in. I drop my tools and the hub, and wipe my hands with a rag as I walk the 8 feet to the counter to ask him what he needs. He says "I want to talk to a mechanic." I'm not known as someone who is often speechless, but I was at that moment.

Just more amunition for your cause Stump.

[stumpy]

That's hilarious cyclenaut!!!! I have told your "ignorant customer story" to my mtb riding chick friends and they all get a big kick out of it. Hey, everyone knows that girls can't fix bikes right. :p

[Cyclenaut]

Funny, and also true Stump.

A friend of a friend in the UK wrote a blurb in one of the UK mtb mags about her experience. She estimates that it takes on average 9.5 seconds for a man to try and ease a wrench out of a chick's hands.

It's a very funny bit.

[rattlecan]

hey ill be honest-

im kinda turned on by a chick who has greasy hands. less work for my lazy ass if she can take care of herself. im not gonna fight her for the wrench. if shes good ill give her my bike to de bug. i wont even watch. ill just have some pleasant thoughts. if she needs help, of course im there for her but then i go into teach mode so she knows next time.

as far as chicks in races- i know plenty of girls that can put the hurt on local dudes. at the track (where winning has a lot to do with tactics and additude) girls race the men and use their percieved weekness to their advantage. i mean sometimes its not even fair. the girls have girls only races, then the really fast ones will jump in with the guys and win their races too. its funny to see a race like that unfold. it happens alot though.


maybe im just fortunate to be in an area surrounded and supported by a lot of bike dorks.


yeah, thats it.

[Cyclenaut]

Hey Can...I see you are down in the Springs, and you mentioned some track stuff. Do you know Scott Patton by any chance?

[rattlecan]

scott patton is a very good friend of mine.

he did my website and i made him three custom frames over the years.

one road, one fixy townie road bike, and one track bike.

if you know scott, you know he requires a special duty ride.

i also sponsor his team, the eastside wheelmen.



so, yes.

[rattlecan]

oh, almost forgot,

scotts dog sandy has been staying at my house for the past week while he is out of town leaving a mess in my back yard:D


how do you know him? must be an east coast thing...

if ya talk at him tell him rattlecan is a jeckess and a wanker... he'll understand and tell you a story or two.

[Cyclenaut]

Can- I basically know him from online. Not even sure how I met him, exactly. It might have been back in the days of the old Bicycling magazine forum on AOL. I've "known" him for a few years now, I think.

The sad thing is that I've been in Colorado since after Christmas and haven't put a visit with him together yet. Top notch guy, he is.

[rattlecan]

you should visit the springs on a weekend at the track. that is when he is at his best. ill be there too and you can check out a majority of my work. today is opening day at the track and it seems to be a local meeting place for all kinds of bike nuts. i think i might have to turn some hot laps today in a few hours. i havent ridden there since september. i kinda miss it.

you can e mail him - scott@scottpatton.com


im sure he 'd like to meet you- he gets a kick out of this kind of thing.

ive seen it before many times. its fun.


one thing - scott hates mountainbikes but loves watching mountainbike crashes. funny, i know people who say the same about the track.

imo- two bikes , two disciplines- different yes, one better than the other, no.

[Cyclenaut]

Can, Scott and I are in pretty frequent contact via Instant Messenger. We've been meaning to get together and things always interfere (laziness on my part, primarly).

I learned of his distaste for mountain biking a long time ago, but he tolerates my affection for it, especially since I got my fixie and am now part of the Cool Kids Club.

I'll see if I can make my way down to the track...it won't be next weekend, I'm wrenching at the 24 hours of Temecula.