Sandbagging

[MrTB]

The latest issue of Dirt Rag got me thinking about this some.At 41 years of age w/a wife,2 kids and a mortgage,moving up in the mountain bike ranks does'nt really concern me all that much.Hell,half the guys riding in the Sport class cound'nt win the Beginner race.So what it boils down to for me is,do I want to get my ass kicked in a 10-12 mile race or a 16-18 mile race.In "my" beginner race I'm racing that 14 year old kid I caught up with,or that 25 year old clydsdale who caught me,or that other 41 year old guy w/a wife,2 kids and a mortgage who also drank a six-pack the night before that I'm neck and neck with on lap 3.While it's certainly not my intention to slight the first timers,I was there once also.Was I somewhat intimidated the first time,sure.I was a little intimidated the first time I used a Porta-John to.Oxymoronic as it may be, racing is a recreational sport for me.Thanks for the vent.

[T. G. Midkiff]

I myself have never been in, or watched a bicycle race but after reading the article about how people are sandbagging the beginner races. I'm shure that I myself will never try. I mean what's the use in trying somthing new if you will never get a fair chance? I believe new rules need to be put in place in order to curb sandbagging. If you can't introduce the fine qualities of a structured event then you will never open the door to new recrutes for Mt biking. It's a shame!

[a2psyklnut]

I've raced a couple of time and would consider myself a "true" beginner when it comes to racing, however, not a beginner to the sport. I'm not in the shape I need to be in to race in Sport class.

Also, I race Clydesdale at 225 lbs I definately qualify. What bugs me is the guys tipping the scale at 185 or 190 and bumping to Clydesdale to be more competative. Do they offer a SuperClydesdale Class?

The other issue I have regarding racing is the cost. If they want more people involved in racing they've got to drop the entry fee. Why is it that BMX races only cost around $10 and Mt. Bike races are $25.00 plus one-day license, plus plus plus. And it doesn't matter what classification. First-timers race one lap, Begginer two...Pros 4 or 5.

If they want a new breed of racers, drop the entry fee for first-timers and begginers to around $10 - $15, then up to $20 for sport, $25 or $30 for expert and $50 for pros. Then offer significant pay-out for pros and 100% payback if you podium in expert and pro.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

L8R

[carlvoss]

If you are really racing for fun - who cares! The stupid little award they might give out for the winner of the beginner Clydesdale couldn't really be worth it. If you are really not competitive then it shouldn't matter to you that someone is sandbagging in beginner. If you are competitive then move up to sport already! I personally never raced in beginner - I went straight to getting my butt kicked in sport class. I was surprised by the dedication and drive found even in the sport ranks. The racing community is fairly small around here, and most people know each other - they know who is sandbagging - there is no honor in it - everyone knows! SuperClydesdale? I'm 6'6", 240lbs - do I qualify?

[MrTB]

At 195 lbs. I'd like to see an "I'm almost a Clyde class". In BMX racing (ABA) alot of adults race in the Cruiser class where everyone is considered an Expert regardless of how many races you have under your belt. In the Wisconsin Off Road Series if a racer places in the series overall he is asked to move up a class. In several of the Beginner class age groups riders sweep the series, while others have been racing the series for several years and rarely break into the top 5 in a race. Do other forms of racing have "true beginner" classes? Chances are, if you've entered into any kind of race, you have a little competitive spirit in you. For an older fellow, racing can be a great stress releiver, good for the soul I suppose. I love to race, I just don't want to be "hard core" anymore , if ever I was.






Keep on rockin' in the free world

[mantispf2000]

Now to look at this topic in another light. I was involved in a race series made up of several different promoters. We had a "series promoter", who was our go-to person. During our meetings, it was decided that, during the series, if someone was to win a certain number of races, that person was to move up in class. Didn't matter if it was their first year racing or 100th, meet the number of wins, you move up. At one point, a junior met the number, and was told to move up, while an adult rider also met the number, but was told he could stay in his division since it was his first year racing. Needless to say, the poop hit the fan. It was only until the final race of the series that this adult rider was told to move up, while the junior rider moved up long before.

My point is-- Rules were made, then selectively enforced. Was this right on the part of the "series promoter" to do?? Could this be a form of sand-bagging? Needless to say, the series no longer exists, which is a shame, since it was growing by leaps and bounds, both with participation and sponsorship support.

If this all made sense, what are some of your thoughts in the matter???

[pmweller]

I've have had two major experiences where I'm sure there was sandbagging going on.
The one I'll mention was the most frustrating one. It was a while back when I was doing a series of races here in Maryland that were basically circuit mountain bike races. There were two categories - A and B. The B race was supposed to be for beginner to intermediate riders while the A race was supposed to be for those with experience and sport to expert riders. There were only a few women even doing this, so I was racing against the guys. So I line up with my other so-called B racers, only to see a few well known expert riders and even one former PRO rider! There was a lot of grumbling and the former pro said he hadn't raced in a while. "Oh, suck it up!" I thought. But to no avail, and even though there were many more audible grumbles from many others who recognized these much better riders, the race went on. I managed to keep up for about half of the 1.5 mile lap, then I never saw those guys again until they started lapping me.

This proves, of course, the there are a lot of folks out there who need to suck up their pride and race in the category where they belong! I'm sorry guys and gals, but there is no excuse for racing where you don't belong. A good general rule I think is if you place in the top 5 in 5 races, then it's time to move up.

That said, I've found it difficult to make that leap from Beginner to Sport. Has anyone else noticed this? I wish there were more "Advanced Beginner" type of categories. There was one race last summer where I tried to race sport. The Beginner distance was one lap or about 6 miles. The Sport distance was 3 laps so about 18 miles! To me that is one great jump! I managed to keep up with the pack for about half a lap, then I never saw those ladies again. (Maybe some sandbagging going on here too?) I managed to go about 13 miles, and then I could do no more. It was my first and only DNF. Why not have a "First Time" racer type of thing where you only do one lap of say 6-8 miles? Then there could be a Beginner Advanced, which could be like 10-12 miles. I guess I'd like to see more women get into racing, myself included.

I stopped racing, except for 24 hour races, basically because I didn't want to race in Beginner class anymore, but I just couldn't make that leap to Sport distances. So that's why I quit.

My $.02...

[angelo_caduto86]

I found the sandbagging article to be very amusing and true. The first time I went to Mt. Snow, I couldn't believe how many 'beginners' were sponsored. some of course were indirect sponsored, that is they belonged to a club that had sponsorship, but many of the so called beginners had a sponsor.

I couldn't believe it 15 year olds (who were probably beginners as far as age) had sponsors.

A lot of the problems here have to do with NORBA. First they force you as a racer to be a beginner, via the one day license. And second because they really don't monitor results. I've seen beginners finish a race with faster lap times than the sports AND they finished about 10-20 minutes ahead of all other beginners. One look at those results would tell you that that guy is a sandbagger.

Another vent brought up here is the cost of racing. All of which is related to the NORBA costs. If you run a small 50 person race the NexORBAdent costs are such that you have to charge $25 to break even. Then you have to have your license. Both are told it is for the 'insurance' but why does it have to cost $35 to race (with a one day beginner license), just so you can have insurance.

Here are some promoter costs (from 1998)
Race Official - $50 (plus mileage)
NORBA cost - $300
Ad in NORBA paper - $150

total - $500

Each racer gets a T-shirt $10 a person

for 50 people that is $20 each

Plus possible extras

Venue costs $???
Flagging and direction signs - $20
Feeding volunteers - $25 ($4 each times six volunteers)
Giving volunteers a t-shirt - $60

it adds up

Some of the costs are a gamble. If you buy 50 t-shirts and 60 people show up you are in trouble, if 20 show up ... you lose your shirt.