Keep Bicycles off the Road

[Browne]

Well, here's a nice write-up, with my response to the author following...
Feel free to email this guy to point out any misconceptions, ignorant statements, etc. that I may have missed. Enjoy!


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_82631.html

Wednesday, July 24, 2002 || Contact Us

Bicycles and cars don't mix


By Dimitri Vassilaros

TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, July 23, 2002

I don't want to share the road with a bicycle. However, you and I must because if we did not, it could lead to tragedy. Drivers have to follow the law, but that does not mean we have to like it.

The Tour de France seems to have spawned the Tour de South Hills — if you'll pardon my French.

Are your secondary arteries clogged by clumps of Lance Armstrong-esque bicyclists sporting aerodynamic helmets, colorful skintight synthetics and baseball-size calf muscles?

Drivers anywhere near East McMurray Road are plagued by these swarms most weekends. Do you have the same problem where you live?

If you see them up ahead, you are forced to drive slower than the slowest one of the pack while you ponder if you can pull out without grazing one and not plowing into an oncoming car around the next bend.

Bicyclists are an accident waiting to happen.

Your municipality should be doing whatever it can to get them off the road. It can start by taking down those yellow street signs with black silhouettes of bike rider and car that encourage road sharing.

Common sense tells you roads are designed for most motorized vehicles: golf carts, riding mowers and farm equipment being some of the exceptions. Yet flimsy, two-wheeled vehicles powered by huffing and puffing are allowed — even welcomed, according to those yellow signs. The governments' values are upside down.

Since bicycles are allowed on our streets, why not in-line skating and skateboarding?

Cars, trucks and motorcycles pay for our roads. State and federal taxes siphon about one-third of the cost of a gallon of gas, according to the stickers on some gas pumps. Take the time to read one the next time you defy the EPA by topping off your tank.

A motorist must pay for all the stickers on his car every year — two on the windshield and one on the license plate — even if no repairs are warranted. He also pays for a driver's license and auto insurance in case of an accident. He pays dearly if he gets a speeding ticket, and he even pays a tax for the privilege of throwing away his old tires.

And do not forget the government makes every motorist pay the hidden costs of all safety features mandated for our vehicles. We are forced to wear seat belts, and motorcycle riders are forced to wear helmets. Do you think many bicycle riders have been stopped and ticketed for safety violations?

If the government is so concerned about highway safety — seat belt this, air bag that and crash test after crash test — why does it allow bicycles anywhere near traffic? Can you name another vehicle on our streets that has no safety features? Does the government care about safety or not?

When those spoke-thin road hogs start paying their fair share of road costs — like motorized vehicles do — then maybe we could consider allowing them on a few isolated roads like in our city, county and state parks, where the only drivers they could threaten would be the teenagers whose parents are teaching them to drive.

The politically correct crowd loves bicycles. They don't use fossil fuels They don't pollute. And the more people can be convinced to ride them instead of cars, the more people will want to move back into the city so their ride Downtown and back would be doable. I have even seen bike racks on PAT buses.

Bicycling is a practical way to commute, if you live in Beijing. Cars are a luxury there, but they are a necessity here. Safety should be a necessity, too.


Dimitri Vassilaros can be reached at dvassilaros@tribweb.com or (412) 380-5637.

**************************************** ******************************
Dear Mr. Vassilaros,

I liked reading your article on the web.

It's kinda funny though. There are so many things that infuriate me, that I'd rather just point out a couple things that disturb me the most.

1. Bicyclists don't pay for roads. I disagree. I am an avid cyclist, but I also own a car. I pay for gas when I use it, and my general tax money pays for those roads also. If there weren't so many three ton vehicles on the road, maybe up-keep would cost less.

If you're arguing that only people who use public resource should pay for them, then you might have a bigger beef with federally-subsidized transportation systems. When was the last time you used a bus? Do you know how much you pay for that?

2. Cars are a necssity. I disagree. I have many published examples of people who don't need cars. Feel free to contact me for any resources. I have plenty.

3. Bicycles are an accident waiting to happen. I disagree. Bicycles accelerate faster in the short run, can brake quicker, and have a sharper turning radius than a car. I also think it's the impatience of drivers like yourself that is the accident waiting to happen. I know you're in a hurry. But you have the luxury of accelerating up a hill in a climate-controlled environment WHENEVER you feel like it.

I fear people like you. Perhaps you are the guy that pulled up next to me on my ride home from work last week, rolled down your window and yelled an unwarranted an unexpected, "You're an asshole." And when I laughed and pointed at your child-like behavior, you stopped your car in the middle of a 35 mph road and waited for me to catch up. Thanks for not running me over like Carnell Fitzpatrick did on April 26, 1999 on Washington St. in Chicago (this guy is currently serving 45 years in prison)

Will you at least give me the opportunity for a discussion next time instead of cowardly rolling up your window and aiming your 1500 lb. Pile of steel at my 160 lbs. Of flesh?

Have a great day.

-- Michael Browne, Editor
________________________________________ ________
Dirt Rag - 3483 Saxonburg Blvd - Pittsburgh PA 15238
412.767.9910
editor@dirtragmag.com
www.DirtRagMag.com

[jimilton80401]

What a tool this guy is. Maybe he should take his Ford Excursion and head for Montana or Idaho, where there's plenty of room and few bikes to worry about. Thanks for replying in such an even-handed and thoughtful way, though -I don't think that I could have been.
I survived for 7 + years without a car on the mean streets of Boston and I'm plenty familiar with this attitude. The entitlement that some drivers display (eg, I can't wait an extra 10 seconds to pass you, instead, I'll go by and squeeze you off onto the dirt shoulder) just infuriates me.
Some day, when I become ruler of the universe, things will be different......

[Mauriceman]

My first idea was to call this guy up and tell him what an asshole he is, but it might be better if several thousand of us send him emails and call him. Here's the poop:

Dimitri Vassilaros can be reached at dvassilaros@tribweb.com or (412) 380-5637.

Shall we circulate his email to the masses?

[Browne]

So yesterday I was totally steemed about this guy most of the day. But there are other things to think about, like the awesome Lit. Contest entry I finished reading or the new book that came in the mail...

But as I was riding in to town to pick up some groceries, I started taking note of all the cars that passed me. Normally I just try to listen to their engine noise to see if they're going to come too close to me, but this time, I just used the Spider Senses and truusted that people were going to be nice.

The thing I paid attention to was what kind of cars people were driving and how many occupants were inside. Especially that string of Jeeps with v6 or v8 engines with just one person.

it never fails, I see the same people driving the same 4 miles, most likely to pick up something like the onion they don't have at home or the eye drops they forgot on the last trip to the store.

And that's when it occurred to me, our friend Mr. Vasillaros has NEVER seen this point of view. It would be like trying to convince someone that hasn't seen the evidence of 9.11 that terrorism COULD happen in the U.S. It would be like trying to get a person who's never known anyone affected by cancer to give money to cancer research.

I guess I'm more disappointed than upset with our ignorant author. I'm disappointed that he can't for one second, try to think about other people who might not have the luxury of owning a car.

But perhaps his article does more good than anything else. After all, what better way to rally a bunch of passionate cyclists?

I think I'm gonna send him an invitation to go on a bike ride.

-Michael

[riderx]

Originally posted by Mauriceman
Shall we circulate his email to the masses? Thanks to Michael's original posting here, it seems the message is already getting out to the masses. On the RideMonkey.com and BikeForums.net message boards, threads have been started and emails appear to be flooding the guy. It's been reported that his email address appears to be down at the moment. Someone suggested also sending a copy of any email to the Editorial email address at opinion@tribweb.com

Got to love the power of mass communication.

[Flying Monkey]

Before you all kill me, please read.

How many times have people said they will be at the next trail maintenance day, next town hall meeting, or other such bicycling event which promotes cycling in any form (mountain, road, commuter,etc.) I've been to a few events but the turnouts were typically low.

After reading the articles on mtbr.com and ridemonkey.com, it appears that there are tons of people who are extremely passionate about keeping the roads legal and more importantly safe. That's fantastic!!

Point: Indeed, flood this guy's email box with counterpoints, but realize that your comments will most likely end in his recycled bin. Channel your feelings/anger/whatever and do something local to support bicycling.

Off my soap box...to fridge for beer, then off to send an email to this ass!

Cameron

[johnbryanpeters]

Seems to be pretty well circulated. I saw it on ridemonkey and emailed the clown, then copied Michael, who propelled me to this forum, so here I am.

Someday, I want to come over and visit the reeking crew, used to live near Pittsburgh when I was real young...

J

[thecrank]

Before I go too far with this - understand that I think this guy is a complete idiot and I disagree with him 100%. But, let me play devil's advocate for a moment and give you something to think about.

Why should bikes be allowed on the road? Or, more specifically, why should cyclists that are out for a ride or out training be allowed on the road?

To clarify my argument - a cyclist that is commuting, and using his/her bike for transportation has a right to be on the road.

However, recreational cyclists do not belong on the road. Why should they? If you are out for a bike ride, why do you deserve space in the road anymore than kids playing catch or tennis players?

Road are designed to allow people to travel from one point to another, and based on the speeds of travel, different vehicles have different rights.

Couldn't equestrians argue to have horse lanes if they were riding their horses down to the post office?

Just something to think about...

T/C

[Subscription Guy]

I disagree with:
However, recreational cyclists do not belong on the road. Why should they? If you are out for a bike ride, why do you deserve space in the road anymore than kids playing catch or tennis players?
end quote.

If I'm riding a bike, It's nobody freaking business WHY I'm riding it. We'd be better off outlawing people in cars joyriding (recreational driving, not going from point a to b).

Jeez! :confused:

[Blackwell]

Originally posted by thecrank
However, recreational cyclists do not belong on the road. Why should they? If you are out for a bike ride, why do you deserve space in the road anymore than kids playing catch or tennis players?

Road are designed to allow people to travel from one point to another, and based on the speeds of travel, different vehicles have different rights.

Couldn't equestrians argue to have horse lanes if they were riding their horses down to the post office?

Just something to think about...

T/C

Sorry, but I don't agree -- although it's man-powered rather than motorized, a bicycle is a still a vehicle, and subject to the same laws as cars. Granted, some bikers don't seem to follow these laws, but we're still required (in most places) to signal, to use the proper lanes when turning, etc. Horses can't be lumped into the same category - the rider doesn't necessarily have complete control over a massive, dumb animal that travels much slower than vehicles and can be easily spooked.

Bicyclists travel on the road in the same method as cars and motorcycles -- kids playing ball in the street are not travelling, and are probably breaking the law by being there. Of course, you don't normally see kids playing baseball on a major street - usually only on residential roads where it's much less of an issue.

[ohioburg]

"However, recreational cyclists do not belong on the road. Why should they? If you are out for a bike ride, why do you deserve space in the road anymore than kids playing catch or tennis players?

Road are designed to allow people to travel from one point to another, and based on the speeds of travel, different vehicles have different rights."

I couldn't disagree with you more. There are plenty of recreational motorists who are just out for a cruise or "Sunday drive". How many hot-rodders and Saturday night cruisers do you see? How many road rallys? Motorists are more than utilitarians.

ohioburg

[ohioburg]

My response to the writer:
____________________________________

Sigh. Another ignorant motorist with pulpit.

“Bicyclists are an accident waiting to happen.”
– Impatient, inattentive motorists are an accident waiting to happen.

“Cars, trucks and motorcycles pay for our roads.” and “When those spoke-thin road hogs start paying their fair share of road costs — like motorized vehicles do”
- TAXPAYERS pay for the roads. I am both a cyclist and a taxpayer. Cars, trucks, and motorcycles do a lot of damage to the roads, however.

“Common sense tells you roads are designed for most motorized vehicles”
– Research your history. The first paved roads were actually designed for bicycles.

[carlvoss]

I find it interesting that he is so hung up on safety and money.
Many people do actual feel like they are safe in their car, but in reality, driving to work in the morning is probably the most dangerous thing they will do all day. This false sense of security creates "daredevils" on the road and even more danger. People try to pass when they shouldn't or turn left in front of on coming traffic. Bottom line is that driving a car is dangerous!
As far as riding bikes on trails etc - statistically, the road is actually the safest place to ride a bicycle! More accidents occur when bicycles are ridden on sidewalks and trails with pedestrians and surprisely even in bike lanes, where the cyclist may have a false sense of security, let down their gaurd and wham, some idiot pulls out in front of them. It's best and safest to ride with the flow of traffic, follow all the laws and make intentions know (ie signal your turns). I can see why people don't want to spend money on more bike paths or bike lanes, but in many cases they would not be needed if people weren't allowed to use the public street as their private parking lot! Hmmm...
How about cost? I would ask: How much money do we all spend through taxes to paying the medical bills of sedintary lard asses who are sick because they never exercised, ate fast food and bitched about bicycles? I recently even read about some idiot who is suing McDonalds for making him fat!!! Please - give me a break.
I would love see what this guy looks like! It sounds like he has a major case of jealousy but doesn't realize it because he is too stupid. I would also like to ask him what he has done about this apparent hazard on the roads - has he done anything except bitch about it? Has he contacted his legislator about changing the law? I doubt it. Just a bunch of hot air because he was "delayed" 10 seconds while trying to pass a cyclist. Poor baby:(

[KOM in Cali]

Unfortunately this opinion is not an isolated one. Recently I was back in da burgh and riding w/ my bro and we encounted this guy's ego in couple form. As we were riding several cars passed and seemed to have no problem. One couple however did seem to have a problem and told us we are a risk on the road.

Seems the uneducated just don't know how to handle an extra vehicle on the road unless it is as big a vehicle as they are driving. I would think another 3 ton car riding next to you at 40mph would be more of a risk then 150lbs at any speed.

There are several other points that this "journalist" fails to consider as counter points and I hope everyone that's emailed him so far has pointed them out.

All of us cyclists must stick together to fight idiots like these and remember to be careful out there!

On another tangent, the columnist of the following article feels that cycling isn't even a sport. Unfortunately there is no email address to respond to but I attempted borges@globe.com

http://www.msnbc.com/news/785267.asp

[bill]

check out this article from Bicycling Life (http://www.bicyclinglife.com/EffectiveAdvocacy/TheRightToTravel.htm)

[BParker007]

Let me guess: Republican, golfer, born-again, fat, smoker, drives a big American made SUV down the block for the paper. Someday the oil will be gone and bicyclists will be miles ahead. Everyone will be healthier for numerous reasons. Urban crowding won't seem so bad. We will probably have more time as life slows down and resumes a more relaxed pace. I am so looking forward to this possible reality. The sooner , the better.

[phatlizard]

Life is so boring without a foe image - and boy is that a good one!
Does anyone know how to fill his mail-box with spam-mail?
I know that is not very nice but I am simply not in a peacefull mood when I read stuff like that!

Christian

[Repairman Cam]

I've e-mailed this dim bulb a copy of the article in bicycling time. It presents my side much more completely and intelligently.
PS If anybody feels that bicycles are not viable forms of transportation, they should take a visit to the Netherlands, where the bike has been incorporated into the fabric of daily life, via special bike only lanes and highways. It could've been like that here...maybe it still can.

[Blatz]

Bikes do belong on the road for all of the great reasons already stated. But, how often have have you come across a large group of Road Cyclists riding 4 abreast, 30 yards long on a 2 lane highway with alot of oncomming traffic.That`s not sharring the road, that`s being stupid. These are the people who give the great sport of Cylcing a bad name. When I do a road ride it`s on my Mountain bike. When a car is about to pass me and I see that an oncomming car is passing by at the same time I get over into the shoulder. It`s the smart thing to do. Hey,it`s a 2 way street.

[ohioburg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BParker007
[B]Let me guess: Republican, golfer, born-again, fat, smoker, drives a big American made SUV down the block for the paper.


Let me guess: Emotional Democrat who doesn't let facts get in the way of a blind rant.

Plenty of us are cyclists, Republicans, and golfers. I see a lot of fat cyclists on the trails and roads, too.

Rick

[Mauriceman]

Let's beat this horse a bit more: Try and show some respect for the other trail users. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Riding wider than single file would seem offensive to any driver.

Oh yea, Dodge me or I'll Ram ya!

[carlvoss]

Obviously, this guy is an idiot, and there are many others out there just like him, who aren't stupid enough to print their idiotic thoughts. The thing that gets me is that this guy has no idea what he is talking about! Why not? Because he has never been a cyclist! Why not? Good question. Did he have a bad experience, has he never had the opportunity? Sometime it may be difficult to try something like cycling, but my experience has been after you get them in the saddle they love it! The sad thing is that he is discouraging those who might otherwise try it. Counter it! Get exposure for your sport, for your way of life, for your club, your team, whatever. Get it out in the local newspaper, so people can see the other side. Even if they never "get into it" at least there can be some understanding and respect! People rarely respect something that they don't understand. Don't point any fingers and alienate those who will never be cyclists. Just get them to understand that we are not a threat, we are not a danger, we have a right to use the roads too, and we are more than willing to share, we just want the same in return. The beautiful thing about cycling is that ANYONE can do it!!! Let's not label ourselves as fat or skinny, smart or dumb, Republicans or Democrats, green or gas guzzler, professional or blue collar - we are everyman, we are cyclists.

[Repairman Cam]

Right you are, Ohioburg. Lets not get caught up in the demo-republo-fat-thin aspects that have nothing to do with this post. Divide and conquer, or united we stand. If all the cyclists regardless of age, weight gender or political affiliation stood up for their (our) rights we would have a voice unignorable. (PS I'm an overweight moderate mountain/road biking unitarian ex?-hippie, but don't hold that against me!):rolleyes:

[jhl99]

For those readers who are not from SW Pennsylvania, the original article of the anti-bike rant was published in the TRIBUNE-REVIEW. The Tribune Review is a conservative daily newspaper controlled by Richard Mellon Scaife. Mr Scaife is a big money, conservative Republican who just might like to puplish the news and editorials that are consistant with his way of thinking.

With all that said, I don't actually ever read the Tribune-Review. (Yea, Pittsburgh is a great place to live, but our local newspapers aren't so hot)

In the Tribune-Review artlcle note how the 'Government' is out to get you, or doesn't want to protect you... the government this , the government that... Big Bad Goverment is going to get you!

What the heck, every place the you see the word 'bicylist', replace it with 'pedestrian'... all of the logic will still work... maybe the pedistrian editorial will be published next week!

My point: before your blood boils over, consider the source.

I rather doubt that Mr. Vassilaros's views are shared with much of the general, driving public.

And one other thing, Here in PA, I think that our old govenor (Tom Ridge, now the Homeland Defense Chump) was actually pretty pro-bicycle... We have the state designated bike routes that criss cross the state on state highways and Rails 2 Trails.

So maybe the point behind the Tribune Review article is that that more money should be appropriated to bike trails, because bikes are a safety issue on roadways!?!?!?! Yea, thats what Mr. Scaife wants, more taxes to pay for more liberal bike trails!

------------------

Jeff


If you need to know more, do a web search of "Mellon Scaife Tribune Review" and decide for yourself.

Or check out:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/04/27/scaife.profile/

[BParker007]

Hmmmm....... I have received several messages regarding my stereotype of Mr. Vassilaros. Emotional ranting, you're being divisive, learn the facts, blah, blah, blah. Prove me wrong. I don't like most golfers. Their sense of privilege offends me. As does the way they lock up land and create artificial environments. I like Mormon missionaries.I think most of them are Republicans. They ride because they have to. Smokers, give me a break. I see butts on every ride , no matter how remote. Fat people, keep on keepin' on. Big SUV drivers listen up: You are helping to ruin the atmosphere. Re-examine your needs. Ok, tell me why I'm wrong.

[ohioburg]

Originally posted by BParker007
Prove me wrong. I don't like most golfers. Their sense of privilege offends me. As does the way they lock up land and create artificial environments. I like Mormon missionaries.I think most of them are Republicans. They ride because they have to. Smokers, give me a break. I see butts on every ride , no matter how remote. Fat people, keep on keepin' on. Big SUV drivers listen up: You are helping to ruin the atmosphere. Re-examine your needs. Ok, tell me why I'm wrong.

Well, there's nothing in your note to be "proven" but how about:
- http://www.daytoncyclingclub.org/images/Clair%20Duckham%20with%20Gov%20Taft2.jpg Republican Ohio governor, who regularly supports cycling issues and is a bike rider himself, is shown here greeting the founder of the Dayton Cycling Club at a recent cycling event.
- "Privilege"? I can golf around Dayton for as low as $10 and I see more beer-drinking, John Daly wannabees than I do of the "privileged" class.
- I don't know how the heck Mormons became part of this discussion.
- Locked up land and artificial environments? I've seen more farmland and wooded areas torn up for housing and business centers than I have for golf courses. And I regularly see deer, ducks, geese, and other wildlife at the golf courses near me despite the multitude of housing developments in the area.
- Smokers? Let's take out the MJ toking that I regularly see in the mtb trails (hhmm, is that locked up land, too?). I did see a dad with a cigarette hanging out his mouth on a bike ride with his two sons the other day. I would have busted up laughing but I was already busting a gut on a steep climb.
- SUV? I drive a van but wish I had one. I regularly haul heavy stuff (furniture, odds and ends) and wish I had better suspension, especially when I hit dirt and gravel roads. I can't afford another car just for small errands that can't be done on a bike. Not all of us are on the way to the corner store for a paper.
- How do you think fat people get in shape? Riding is much less stressful on the joints than jogging.

Take the blinders off and look at both sides of issues. You'll be much less stressed, maybe even learn something, and discover new interests. Go ride.

Now excuse me. I've got to ride my bike over to the car dealership. I need to buy a new SUV to haul my golf clubs over to the Young Republicans convention where we're going to discuss new ways to convert people to the Mormon church. Afterwards, we'll probably go shoot a couple of Bambis then light a cigar.

Rick
Dayton

[carlvoss]

Do you really expect people to see your side of things when you blatantly refuse to even look at their's? Before you point out the speck in another's eye, you should remove the plank from your own.

[Zoltar]

This guy has no chance in hell of ever getting a law that restricts bikes to sidewalks. So he's a loser already.

It's just a petty bitch with no meaning.

[Lorien]

Originally posted by Browne

I think I'm gonna send him an invitation to go on a bike ride.

-Michael


That's a great idea. He is obviously miserable with his life, and seeing people actively participating in life has gotten him all bitter inside.
Maybe he never had a bike as a kid, and has no idea what Freddy Mercury was talking about when he sang "All I want to do is bicycle."

A good day of cruising through area parks in the open air ought to return some of that stolen youth of his, maybe he'll (finally) start enjoying life.

[BParker007]

Why would I even care about the Pittsburgh jerk's point of view? This is a forum for bicyclists. I am allowed to rant about the evil anti-bike forces in the world. My stereotypes were from experience, not something I pulled out of my helmet. I'll bet at least 60% of what I said is correct. I only wish I could prove it. His point of view is dangerous to us. Guys like that are the ones that see if they can run us into a ditch or brush us off our bikes with their side view mirrors. I've had enough run-ins with Suburbans, Cherokees, F-250s and other vehicles large and small. I've had stuff thrown at me, poured on me, and yelled at me. I don't want to consider their rights anymore. Those people don't deserve our consideration. Self preservation is our strongest instinct. They can pretty much go to hell.

[carlvoss]

Originally posted by BParker007
Why would I even care about the Pittsburgh jerk's point of view? This is a forum for bicyclists. I am allowed to rant about the evil anti-bike forces in the world. My stereotypes were from experience, not something I pulled out of my helmet. I'll bet at least 60% of what I said is correct. I only wish I could prove it. His point of view is dangerous to us. Guys like that are the ones that see if they can run us into a ditch or brush us off our bikes with their side view mirrors. I've had enough run-ins with Suburbans, Cherokees, F-250s and other vehicles large and small. I've had stuff thrown at me, poured on me, and yelled at me. I don't want to consider their rights anymore. Those people don't deserve our consideration. Self preservation is our strongest instinct. They can pretty much go to hell.

Call me crazy, but your attitude probably contributes to the number of incidents you seem to have...

[BParker007]

Well Carl, maybe I just ride a lot. The percentage of incident is related to mileage and years. I'm not some kid. To quote Muddy Waters " Way past 21". I ride aggressively to establish my right to the lane. I don't ride foolishly. I'm quite cautious. Traffic is heavy here and there are plenty of people that are aware of our presence. I am also fortunate enough to live in a place with temperate winters. I commute by bike 4 days a week. 20 miles each way. Year round. I ride off-road on real mountains on Saturday. I go on 50 mile plus road rides on Sunday. I feel I have earned the right to my opinion. How about yourself? Racer, commuter, poser? Are you a member of one of the groups I picked on? Are you too sensitive? Maybe you're a great guy. How should I know? Cars are destroying the world we live in. Cyclists are the canaries in the coal mine. I choose to object to cars. And yes, I have one. It doesn't get used much. Maybe you're the same. Just don't tell me I have to be nice about it. Too many times lately I have heard about cyclists used as speed bumps. I know you have too. Being nice about it doesn't get much done. I'm not advocating violence but, stick up for yourself. The rest of the world doesn't care that much. Now, go ride your bike. I am.

[Repairman Cam]

Riding aggressively and holding your ground is one thing, stereotyping an entire group (or groups) of people because of the actions of a few is another...
But then again I am overweight, and us "fat people" gotta keep on keepin' on.:confused:
PS I've been riding for over 32 years now...

[Mauriceman]

Respect.

[PF IRELAND]

Hi
I sent this clown something really abusive to say how howI felt. He sent me back a mail to say foul language was unbecoming.
So I sent him a reasoned mail to point out his opinion was very one sided. As a cyclist and a motorist I feel I have valid points. Now the clown has a standard reply on his mail

[BParker007]

Alright, I'm not apologizing or explaining anymore. Actually, I don't think I have apologized at all. Good for me. I am unrepentant. I will continue non-violent attacks on anti-cyclists. I hope the rest of you do the same. They don't like us. Watch out.

[carlvoss]

You are a true ambassador.

[BParker007]

More than you'll ever know or believe. Peace out, whatever.

[boob]

Check out the forum on the pittsburgh website. There's one response to the article in particular that's pretty interesting.

[mohaka]

BParker007,
Just curious, what is a "non-violent attack" on an anti-cyclist?
Is it something like flipping them off?
Pardon my ignorance, the term seems to me somewhat of an oxymoron.

[BParker007]

More like Critical Mass type riding. Asserting your rights as a road and trail user. Participating in anti-car events. Maybe attack is a strong word but, working towards a car-free world requires strength.

[boob]

I'll venture to guess that most people on this forum are NOT working towards a car-free world. I'm not.

[BParker007]

I would rather spend my time and money on bikes than paying for, maintaining, being stuck in traffic with, or looking for a parking place for my car.

[BParker007]

Anyone else feel the same way? We live close to the University of Washington in Seattle. It is a very car intensive environment. There are also many, many peds and bikes. Right now, part of University Way is being torn up and repaved. This is the main arterial through the University District. It has all the usual pubs and restaurants you would expect to find close to a really big school. Plenty of stuff going on all night. About three blocks are closed to traffic. My wife and I were amazed at how quiet it was. You could hear conversations up and down the street. Laughter and music could be heard spilling out of the doorways. This wouldn't have been possible if cars had been cruising this usually very busy street. This is the sort of thing that inspires the anti-car movement. Motor vehicles have their place. I just don't feel they are worthy of worship. It's only going to get worse. Why not ride to your errands? If you live in the country, tell us what works for you. City people have options. Not all are good. Let your elected representatives know what you want. Make a difference.

Brian

[mtnbikingxtc]

What do you call a person who resorts to violence to indimitate another person into their beliefs?

What do you call a person who uses a automobile to force a cyclist off the road or even injury or kill to keep cyclist out of their way?

Think 9 / 11 / 2001

[boob]

A barbarian!

[Nash]

Gang.....this dork could be talking about me. I live and ride on East Mcmurray. Obviously he doesnt have a clue so I wont get to heated up, you know what they say about opinions. Hopefully I never run into this guy, or more importantly he never runs into me.

Any ideas for a sign I could put on my back for my next ride down McMurray..........be creative now.

[Scott G.]

The Dude is sadly mistaken that bikes are an accident waiting to happen...

Last time I checked I did not have to have liability insurance for riding a bike and when I tried to get accident/collision or even a rider for my sweet piece of Ti they balked!

[TheDude]

Yes, this man is obviously oblivious to anything outisde of his 2 ton rolling death machine. Not in this man's defense, but maybe he came across what I'm going to talk about.....

This is directed at the small niche of commuter C's who feel that automobiles are the devil, and think they should treat them as such......

I have no quarrels with roadies or the likes of them, I am perfectly fine with people who have the sense to notice there surroundings and know when to get out of the way, etc. My problem is with the commuters who think they have to prove a point by riding in the MIDDLE of the road. These people truly irk me. What are they trying to prove? That they have the guts to stand up to air horns and close encounters of the asphalt kind? I ride trails all the time......I avoid roadways, for the obvious reasons of wanting to stay alive. I beleive bombing a ledge infested muddy downhill is safer than riding on many city, and rural roads (you get my point). How many times have you seen somebody driving in front of you, inadvertantly drift onto the shoulder? Sharing the road with 18 wheelers, city buses, and Excursions (which really is a bus) on city streets is not very appealing to me....... I wouldn't want to be the reciever of a nasty, unavoidable incident with one of those behemoths, yet people (commuter C's) think that it's easy to maneuver those vehicles around them. Sure the Xcursion is being discontinued (thank god) but city buses aren't, and won't.

I can back this up. I once came across one of these die hard commuters and asked him (nicely, I'm not an a#$hole) why he felt that it was necessary to ride in the middle of a posted 45mph road........"I'm trying to get the message across that bikes are are allowed on the road too", ok fine, BUT GET OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD! WTF!? Get on the shoulder for christ sake, or at least far enough over so that people can pass SAFELY. I told him he had bigger balls than me, I don't want some frickin redneck throwing beer bottles and small chickens at me man.

Which could happen in my town.....

I'm not kidding

So anyway, after that rant, I have to say that this guy is a jackass, it's very easy to get along with roadies when you use common sense. I think that people have second personalities in there cars......

That's why I avoid roads.

Rant over

[hairygrump]

Originally posted by Nash
Any ideas for a sign I could put on my back for my next ride down McMurray..........be creative now.

Idea:

Get out of the car and say that to my face

I love wearing text.

I'm actually one of those commuters like The Dude that thinks you should give the cars on the road as much space as you can without sacrificing your own visibility and stability. For that reason though, I get super pissed when motorists get it my face or give me a hard time for sharing their road.

Story: One day I was on a pretty crowded street in the Downtown Mini-Apple (by Nicollet and 8th, for you Minneapolitans), over as far as I could get and still see the cabbies to avoid getting doored, and somebody that couldn't get by me just laid on the horn and revved in first gear, like there was somewhere I could go. I wasn't being obnoxious and I was doing my best to be very curtious... the fact was it was just trafficky as **** and there wan't anywhere for a vehicle that big to go.

So I took a Sharpie and wrote SUE ME on the light panel of my Timbuk2, just big enough to be read when you're too close to me.

[TheDude]

Nash -Dork? If that was directed at me, I would never think of "running over a cyclist", what the hell is wrong with you? I guess the post didn't get my point across.

I just think realistically. Cars rule the road, obviously. Bikes have rights to. I just don't know why some people think they need to put lives in danger, all for some asphalt space. Their is plenty of room for bikes and autos, that's my point. Granted I don't live a large metro area. But I still live where 90% of the populous are students, bike riding students. College towns are (IMO) the most bike friendly areas. We have frigging bike lanes and people STILL ride in the middle of the road. Why make a fuss when you have what you want? I guess my voice is falling on deaf ears, is their anyone out there that can relate?

We have more ped accidents than bike acidents. In fact, I have never heard of a bike accident here, only peds, BECAUSE we have bike lanes. We have bike lanes because people fought for them, which is great. So, I guess what I explained in my last post about "vigilante cyclists" only happens in my town, we must be on mars.

Car free world? Never happen......

That's a can of worms :rolleyes:

[Nash]

Dork was not directed to TheDude..........I meant the Dork who wrote the one sided article. I got your point.
I agree, cars rule the road and common sence should tell you to stay out of the way of something that weighs 2 ton.

[TheDude]

My bad. My Apologies.

[carlvoss]

Check out this site:

http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/sidepath/sidecrash.htm

Based on statistics, it's more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk with peds or off-road than on the street!!!

[angelo_caduto86]

How about a commuter bike sticker:

My cadence is keeping me from your heart attack


get a stroke worrying about that one....

[bikertrash]

I can't agree with anyone that says bicycles should be banned from the road, however if we expect respect from the motorists,we must give respect in kind. When you have 20-30 cyclists congesting up a road on an impromptu ride it is bound to cause hard feelings. Most of those who ride in those large groups are weekend warrior wannabes anyway and often drive their SUV's to work during the week.
The point is if we expect the motorists to share the road with us, we have to share the road as well, and a gang of 30 cyclists shouldn't be allowed to plug up the highways, if you can't keep everyone on the side of the road, then split the group up.
On another note, I found a new definition for SUV- Saudi's Ultimate Victory.