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garbanzo
07-27-2002, 12:39 AM
What the hell is this guys deal?

Check this out and tell me if it makes any sense to you

http://www.msnbc.com/news/785267.asp?cp1=1#BODY


Great feat, but not a great athlete
Armstrong winning Tour impressive, but it’s not athletic

CERTAINLY ARMSTRONG IS A HELL of a bike rider, but does that make him superior to Michael Jordan, Barry Bonds, Jerry Rice or Marion Jones? Does it make him a better athlete than the Williams sisters? Does the ability to sit on a skinny bicycle seat for hours on end and pump your legs like a madman make you a great athlete or merely a guy who does better without training wheels than most people?
If Armstrong is a great athlete, so are marathon runners. Athletes, for my money, must do more with their bodies than pump their legs up and down. If that’s all it took, the Radio City Rockettes would have to be considered the greatest athletes of all time.
It seems inevitable that Armstrong is going to win the Tour de France on Sunday for the fourth straight time, barring any unforeseen bicycle accidents. This is a great feat in his sport, so good for him, but who really cares?
For the past two weeks, there have been regular reports about how the Texas-bred cancer survivor was going to catch the field of mostly foreign bike pedalers after they entered the Alps and beat them down the other side to the Champs-Elysse and under the Eiffel Tower.
A few skinny men and women seem quite excited about this prospect, although Armstrong has done it with the kind of regularity that has made more than a few advocates of this fringe sport wonder if he’s pedaling on premium fuel while his competitors are (mostly) using regular.
Whatever Armstrong is doing, most of the sporting world couldn’t care less. Newspapers annually kill a few trees to print stories about this race, and occasionally it is mentioned on network news with the required picture of a bunch of bikes bunched together and one guy wearing an ugly yellow shirt. After that, they move on to curling news.
ESPN SportsCenter updates us daily on Armstrong’s whereabouts because that is what they do. They also had a special last week on a dog competition that involved running through tiny gates and jumping over small fences. Draw your own conclusions.
That a man can race around France on a bicycle and live to tell about it is a noble feat, although I’d think more of it if he actually was using his feet. It would be more of a feat if he was forced to dine on French cuisine each night too and then lug those heavy sauces around with him the next morning. After a week of that it would be the Bus Tour de France because everyone’s bicycle seats would be broken.
Armstrong’s task is most certainly a difficult one, but so is the world lumberjack contest, and no one goes on National Public Radio and argues the winner is the best athlete in the world. He’s just a guy who operates an axe better than the rest of us.
I would argue the same is true of Armstrong. He can pedal a bike better than anyone. He probably didn’t even need training wheels. But could he do it if someone was playing defense?
How fast is he when they take the bike away? Is he as fast as Marion Jones? Is he as fast as Chipper Jones?
For my money, being the greatest athlete in the world involves strength, speed, agility, hand-eye coordination, mental toughness and the ability to make your body do things that defy description. Chief among them is not pumping your legs up and down while your feet are strapped to bicycle pedals.
Do not misunderstand me. Lance Armstrong’s feat of winning the Tour de France, if he indeed does it for the fourth time, is deserving of praise and recognition.
If you want, you can even argue that it is a great sporting feat. After all, there are people out there who actually think golf is an athletic endeavor, although I feel if it is, so is pool.
In recent years, a minority of media members in America have tried desperately to convince us that fringe sports such as cycling must be given their due. It is a passion of theirs to try and convince the rest of us American sports fanatics that the less we see of something the better it really is.
Fine for them. Just don’t be trying to give away the title of world’s greatest athlete to a skinny guy from Texas who sits on a bicycle seat for nine hours a day careening through the mountains, tall though those mountains might be.
Praise Armstrong’s grit, his determination and his cardio-vascular system. But don’t try to convince me he’s the world’s greatest athlete. First try to convince me he’s an athlete at all.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Borges writes regularly for NBCSports.com and covers boxing and the NFL for the Boston Globe.

lungbutter
07-27-2002, 12:52 AM
When the barly rage has recessed. That Borly guy ought to be hung by his pussy lips!!!!!!!!

phatlizard
07-28-2002, 01:18 PM
You probably heard before that Armstrong is not "liked" or respected here in Europe. Which is basicly true. But that is not because he is like he is or that is achivements wouldn't be respected but with commentaries like that from MSNBC it gives them (okay I am one of them!) a reason to think that the USA doesn't deserve to have a Tour de France winner! Maybe it is hard to understand - it is for sure hard for me to find the right words. Just thought I give it a try because I get asked about that a lot and never really know how to explain it! This was just a great opportunity!

And before someone even gets the wrong idea.
I think he is one hell of an athlet and he deserved the win like no one else in the peleton did - his team actually deserves it!

Christian

ridetheworld
07-28-2002, 03:31 PM
It is sad that someone in such a position, to manipulate the masses, is such a asses

angelo_caduto86
07-29-2002, 12:06 AM
I am of two thoughts over this article/column

At first read a week ago I thought it was the worse thing that could happen to cycling. The guy is preaching to the choir (games with sticks and balls) and at the devil (cyclists, if I can use a play on words). With Lance doing so well, no one wants to see ridicule.

On this tact I dashed off a letter to MSNBC, but I don't think it did any good. I don't think the writer of MSNBC worry about raising the ire of cyclists and fans. If you aren't getting someone riled up in the newspaper business you aren't trying.

On the other hand I think he has polarized many cyclist who would have watched the Tour de France and moved on. Now people seem to be interested in doing something. Well the thing to do is not to write a letter to the columnist or MSNBC about the columist. The thing to do is to take your energy and direct it to a area that might help US cycling. Write or call your local sports editor and ask him why he doesn't write more about the Tour or about the local training race. Convince the people at the grass roots level that it is important to cover the sport, because it is a sport and there are local businesses (bike shops) and local athletes involved.

Forget the loser on the internet, change the guy in your back yard.

hazard
07-29-2002, 02:06 AM
From an online dictionary:

ath·lete Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Maybe the author should leave the cycling the world alone and spend his time commenting on more deserving, cerebral 'sports' such as Nascar.

I Agree with the above poster: this is a good shot in the arm to cyclist to do something to advance our cause...

take care,

robh
07-29-2002, 10:33 AM
The statement "Armstrong winning Tour impressive, but it’s not athletic" infuriates me. I feel that a sports journalist should have some comprehension of the sports he is writing about. You ask, is he superior to Michael Jordan, Barry Bonds, Jerry Rice or Marion Jones? I don’t think that any of these people have ever pushed their bodies to the limit that any cyclist in the Tour De France does, let alone Lance. Have they ever burned upwards of 9,000 calories at one sitting, or held a heart rate of 190 for around an hour? Webster’s dictionary defines an athlete as, “A person trained in exercises, games, or contests requiring physical strength, skill, stamina, speed, etc.” I believe Lance fits that description pretty well. To think that Armstrong is not athletic, this journalist should hop on a bike and try and climb his local hill at 20 miles/hour. This may give him a glimpse into why Lance has won “Athlete of the year” from ESPN, I believe two times. Mr. Borges should have kept his thoughts to his self on this one.

pmweller
07-29-2002, 12:14 PM
I found Lance's stats at his web site (http://www.lancearmstrong.com/faq.html):

Resting heart rate: 32-34 (and I'm all excited about my 55 RHR)
VO2ml/kg: 83.8 (Most charts have anything above 50-60 as "high")
Max power at VO2: 600 watts
Max heart rate: 201
Lactate Threshold HR: 178
Time Trial HR: 188-192
Pedal rpm's during TT: 95-100
Climbing rpm's: 80-85, sometimes faster when attacking
Average HR during endurance rides (4-6 hrs): 124-128
Average watts during endurance rides: 245-280 watts
Training miles/hours, endurance rides: 5- 6 hrs / 100-130miles

While I agree that the athletes that the author mentions in his article are great athletes. To say that Lance Armstrong is not in their league is simply naive. It's likely Lance wouldn't do well on the [American] football field against some of the NFL's greatest. However, it is likely none of the NFL's greatest could beat Lance on a bike race, or any endurance event.

What makes it so incredible that Lance Armstrong wins The Tour is mainly because he is American. Americans don't do well in cycling when competing against Europeans. (Remember the last summer Olympics? Remember how poorly both the US men and women did in the mountain bike race?) It would be like a Frenchman coming and playing in the NFL and kicking everone's ass.

phatlizard
07-29-2002, 02:24 PM
Found this statement today on MSNBC.com and liked it!

"*If he’s not an athlete and bike racing isn’t a sport, then that business between the Israelis and the Palestinians is just a slight difference of opinion. "*

I hope you heard today that Rumsas' (third on the podium) wife was arrested with a suitcase full of drugs! Yeap ... gotta love these Euros ...

Christian
Germany

carlvoss
07-29-2002, 02:33 PM
This article is such an obvious ploy by MSNBC to create controversy and increase their web rating - which translates to more money from advertisers. Anyone, cyclist or not, can see that this guy knows nothing about the sport. He doesn't even sound like an athlete at all, unless you call flipping the channel between Sports Center and Fox Sports Net athletic.

mohaka
07-30-2002, 09:58 AM
Check out this reply to those hacks that know nothing about cycling.
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/2809.0.html

mohaka
07-30-2002, 10:06 AM
Check out this reply to those hacks that know nothing about cycling.
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/2809.0.html

hairygrump
08-02-2002, 12:56 PM
This guy's a silly monkey for 3 different reasons. They follow, from left to right:

Strawberry) Clearly we're dealing with someone whose acquaintance with physical activity comes from Gold's Gym. Anybody that tells me that all I'm doing is pumping my legs up and down on my 5k ride to the grocery store, dodging cars and pedestrians and 8" deep Minnesota chuck holes just to pick up a pound of chicken, would get his skull caved in with a KryptoLok. And that's just my grocery run. Imagine if my grocery run was 90-200k a day at 30kph. The only bike riders that "just pump their legs up and down" are the tub bucket sports writers that work out on the exercycles at the gym.

Vanilla) Somebody playing defense? Team road cycling involves defense and offense. You attack by riding as fast as you can. You defend by riding faster than anybody else and maintaining a good position in the group and using your team. I love it when sports writers write about sports that they have no concept of. This would be like describing boxing as "the winner is the guy who can take the most blows to the head"... there's a pretty wide gulf between how the sport appears to someone who isn't familiar with it and anyone who's watched it for more than 10 minutes. The appearance of simplicity is merely that. I wonder what he would say to someone telling him there's no athleticism or strategy involved in boxing.

Chocolate) Hi. My name's Logic. "How fast would Armstrong be if you took away the bike?" I don't know, Ron. How fast would Marion Jones be if you gave him a bike? What about if you gave them both cricket bats and dropped them in a swimming pool? Which one would learn to fly first? This is like criticizing Nolan Ryan for being a lousy double-dutch rope skipper.

But this guy manages to sidestep the only important point in all of this; to dominate the Tour de France you have to be at the pinnacle of technology, athleticism, endurance, strategy and team management. Of course he's not an athlete like Marion Jones is. If anything, I think his achievement is more impressive because it involves bringing together so many more disparate elements.

carlvoss
08-09-2002, 04:37 PM
Do they still make Neopolitan? It seems like all I see these days are Ben & Jerry's look alikes with names that don't give any indication of what is actually in the ice cream nor it's flavor. Moose Tracks? Bear Droppings?

angelo_caduto86
08-09-2002, 07:31 PM
I just had an interesting thought....

isn't it funny that the cycling (especially the French) can't believe that Lance is so athletic without the use of drugs, but the other media doesn't think cycling is athletic.

great paradox

Jerronimo
08-20-2002, 03:41 PM
MSNBC should be embarrassed to publish such a moronic editorial and I told them so. I had expected at least a little professionalism from them but this was childish. Now I will no longer look at their publication.

BTW, the agree/disagree sidebar went 97% against and 3% in favor of his opinion, as of today.

The Gordo
09-09-2002, 03:57 AM
I'm The Gordo and I say we kill that guy to keep him from procreating and then bury his remains with the crust of a thousand rusted Huffy's and the severed hands of Bike Theives!

Aces:
The Gordo